Grace vs. False-Grace: Have you fallen for the false-grace message? FIVE MARKS OF THE FALSE-GRACE MESSAGE
For an extremely comprehensive study on the topic of false-grace, I'd encourage you to read my article, The Salvation Equation HERE. (It will open in a new tab/window.)
I'd also like to encourage you to read an important novel by John Bevere titled Rescued. It will shake you and your theology as he dramatically depicts eternity unfolding for pastors and pillars of the church. False-grace is dealt with in sober fashion. You can find it on Amazon HERE.
Grace vs. False Grace: The church has fallen hard for a teaching that puts lives at eternal risk. Here are five marks of the false-grace doctrine.
I want to make my point very clear right up front. The reason I feel it’s mandatory for us to start focusing on the issue of false-grace is because of the eternal implications. My angle is not mostly Earthly focused, how our lives are impacted in the here and now, though our short experience on Earth will certainly be impacted as we react rightly to this message (…on Earth as it is in Heaven.)
My angle is this: A false-grace doctrine is a drug—a poisonous sleeping pill that feels freeing, relaxing and euphoric. Yet the false-grace overdose that’s occurring in churches all over the world is resulting in people’s careless, self-focused slumber that they will, one day, fail to awaken from.
Many in the false-grace movement have already been shocked on the day of their death to find themselves escorted not into the presence of God by glorious angels, but rather by the most horrifying of demonic creatures into their new, eternal residence in Hell. It happens every day. I’m grieved and broken.
The Apostle Paul accurately predicted, “The time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to MYTHS” (2 Tim. 4:3,4).
The GOOD NEWS is that God loves us. Period. It’s settled. We don’t have to feel it. We don’t have to experience it. He loves us. No amount of work or activity will cause him to love us more. The question isn’t his love of us, it’s our love of him. He already responded to our condition—by his true grace. Now, we have to respond to his condition. He is a holy and fearful God.
I’ll make it very clear: We are righteous because of Jesus, not our works. Our works is an evidence of his righteousness applied in our lives. Our repentance comes when there is a collision between the reality of our righteousness in Christ and our choice to sin. The two can’t mix. If we do repent, righteousness remains. If we don’t repent, it does not. It’s as simple (though not always easy) as living a life that’s alive to Christ and quick to repent as his wonderful Holy Spirit convicts us. It’s when we presume sin and holiness can coexist that eternity is provoked. There is a true-grace message that is more powerful, freeing and desirable than anything the false-grace message promises.
Galatians 5:2-6 (ESV) 2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. 3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. 4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.
Our works APART from the cross are meaningless. Filthy rags. Even deadly. But in response to the cross of Christ, our obedience is beautiful indeed! If we believe, we will respond to his instructions out of the fear and love of the Lord. Yet, if we are not truly in Christ, we do have reason for concern.
John 3:15-17 (KJV) 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
With such a permanent and terrifying potential before us, eternity, we must analyze our own theologies. How can we know we have been influenced by this heretical teaching of false-grace? It’s not hard.
Watch the two-part teaching: Five Marks of False Grace
FIVE MARKS OF THE FALSE-GRACE DOCTRINE
ONE. We believe in a theology of exemption.
A theology of exemption states that since we are saved, we are exempt from the penalties of sin. That there are parts of the Bible that no longer apply to us. Yes, it’s a heresy. False-grace removes bible-based responsibilities to respond to God in holiness.
The number of people who subconsciously or unwittingly embrace a theology of exemption is far greater than those who explicitly pronounce their agreement with this doctrine. Many subscribe to false-grace doctrines without realizing their deception.
Many have been lulled into a false sense of security while actually existing in an unsaved state. They are confident they’d enter Heaven if they died, yet the reality is that they would not. They have come to believe they are exempt from certain parts of the Word of God that requires response.
1 Peter 1:15-17 (ESV) 15 but as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.” 17 And if you call on him as Father who judges impartially according to each one’s deeds, conduct yourselves with fear throughout the time of your exile,
Be holy. God judges according to one’s deeds. Those who hold to a theology of exemption don’t believe they are subject to what this verse is communicating. The command to be holy is to them a great goal, but not a mandate. A principle not a command.
Our name can actually be removed from the book of life—and that is determined by our obedience, our holiness. Sin can still separate a follower of Christ from him. The Rich Young Ruler saw that this was the case. He wanted to follow Jesus, but could not. He was not exempt from judgment even though he wanted to follow Jesus.
The argument of grace is actually quite revealing. People in the false-grace movement would say, “It’s not possible to be holy, or to avoid sin, so thank God for his grace that covers those sins. In fact we are automatically holy… innocent by association!”
Grace isn’t meant to cover up sin, grace is power! Those who walk in true grace would never say that we, as Christians, are predisposed to sin! True grace enables us to do the impossible! False-grace confesses that we cannot. Because of the cross and the resurrection of Jesus, we now have something they didn’t have in the Old Covenant—we have the power to obey! We can do this!
In fact, not only aren’t we exempt from obedience in the New Covenant, the call to obedience is even more humanly impossible than in the Old!
Matthew 5:21-22 (ESV) 21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
We as Christians are not exempt from judgment or from the repercussions of sin. If we are in Christ, there is no condemnation, but if we are deceived by false theology into thinking we are in Christ, while actually living in disobedience, we are in trouble. We are not in Christ and there is condemnation. No salvation. The wrath of God remains on us. False-grace doctrine is eternally deadly. There are many people following Jesus today in an unsaved condition.
John 3:35-36 (ESV) 35 The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18-19 (KJV) 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Deeds. Fruit. Works. They are evidences of our position in Christ.
Yes, it’s hard to get saved, hard to stay saved, but if we walk in humility and grace and in the Spirit, eternity with Jesus is our inheritance!
TWO. Sin is treated as temporally troubling but eternally benign.
Hebrews 10:26-27 (ESV) 26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.
That verse stands on its own. The false-grace teachers emphasize that our sin may cause problems in the here and now, but there is no risk of Hell. This has to be one of the most troubling positions those in the false-grace movement take.
Universalism is creeping into the church very subtly. False grace teaches that Hell is not a concern for Christians and Christian Universalism teaches that there is no Hell. Different twists on the same false doctrine.
Yes, sin does result in trauma here on the Earth. But, it doesn’t end there. If we embrace a lifestyle of sin, we are not saved. We won’t go to Heaven. The day of judgment will be a day of horror.
The false-grace/semi-universalist position is one that would adhere to “once saved always saved.” My belief is actually quite the opposite—once saved rarely saved. The road is not wide. It’s narrow and it’s rare to find people on it… and people who decide to stay on it.
Revelation 3:5-6 (ESV) 5 The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels. 6 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’
If we don’t conquer, don’t work out our salvation with fear and trembling, our name is blotted out of the book of life.
Galatians 5:16-21 (ESV) 16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
If we walk in the Spirit, our flesh is subdued. However, if we aren’t walking in the Spirit, we are under the law because Christ’s sacrifice has been made of no effect. Therefore, even though we may have said the sinner’s prayer, paid tithes and lived a good life, that salvation is nullified for us. The above scripture reveals what clear evidence to look for when analyzing our position in Christ.
I’ve heard of pastors who boast that they no longer preach on the cross, sin or Hell because we are in the age of grace. My God! The cross must be central to our churches!
There can be pastors who preach powerfully, pray in tongues and lead large, growing churches who won’t inherit the kingdom of God. If they are driven by jealousy of other pastors or embrace division, the Bible is clear. If they don’t repent, Hell is in their future. Do you have any idea how much of the fear of the Lord is on this pastor? I tremble continually. False-grace provides temporal security in exchange for eternal torment. The enemy is more than happy to make this exchange.
THREE. Repentance and confession of sin is not necessary after we have been saved.
False-grace teachers proclaim that our sins are forgiven past, present and future. This is simply not true. If we repent, we are forgiven. If we retain our sins they are retained. The provision for forgiveness has been made, and the true grace has been given to us to respond.
The Lord’s Prayer itself makes it clear that we must both ask for forgiveness and forgive!
Matthew 6:12 (ESV) 12 and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
1 John 1:9 (ESV) 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:6 (ESV) 6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
The false-grace theology commonly teaches that we, as humans in a fallen world, are expected to sin and that it’s the focus on sin, not sin itself, that puts us into bondage. The reality is that people are becoming affirmed in a sinful state with no fear of the Lord or fear of damnation to be found. Of course, false-grace teachers don’t encourage a lifestyle of sin, but they also don’t sound the alarm communicating any sort of eternal threat. To them, there is no eternal risk whatsoever.
A friend of mine shared this:
Amy Smith: Misrepresented grace has caused us to respond to the command to be holy with an elbow bump and a wink, wink. “Ok God, we know what you mean. You're not really asking us to be holy, you're just telling us to make sure we're under your grace. We know that You're overlooking those little sins we're not dealing with. In fact, your grace allows us to also overlook some things, such as all the scripture verses that call for standards that are higher than we can achieve.”
Another friend shared this:
Ed Hull: When we die, it will not be what we believed about our identity in Christ that will save us. It will be whether the concept of our identity produced good fruit, the fruit of righteousness.
Simply put, repentance and confession is absolutely critical to our position in Christ after salvation. Most are unclear on their identity… they presume themselves to be ‘in Christ’ though they very well may not. If we are ‘in Christ’, there is no condemnation, but if we analyze our position wrongly, presuming to be ‘in Christ’ when in fact we are not, we are still condemned.
Repentance is actually a very wonderful, joyful, fulfilling lifestyle!
The closer I get to God, the deeper into my heart I allow him to peer, the more wonderful repentance comes flowing out. I love to repent! Even if it’s grieving, my heart comes alive as I realign with the Lover of my soul! The more I turn, the deeper into God I go! Ignoring sin, unbelief and other barriers to intimacy just can’t be our strategy! Presuming they aren’t there when they are just doesn’t work. Repent continually and enjoy an indescribably journey into intimacy with Jesus!
FOUR. A biblical works message is renounced as legalism.
It’s striking to me how often I hear that a focus on holiness and obedience equates to legalism. How far from orthodox Christianity has the church fallen?
The only point at which it’s legalism is if we were to reject the cross and resurrection of Christ by attempting to work our way into Heaven. But, if we agree that Jesus is the only one who could have paid for our sins yet we also refuse to work, our salvation is a myth.
Legalism is our attempt to get to Heaven by bypassing the cross of Jesus. Holiness and works are our response to the cross of Jesus.
Luke 6:46 (ESV) 46 “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?
Luke 8:21 (ESV) 21 But he answered them, “My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it.”
Luke 11:28 (ESV) 28 But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”
John 8:51 (ESV) 51 Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.”
John 14:15 (ESV) 15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
John 15:10 (ESV) 10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love.
John 15:14 (ESV) 14 You are my friends if you do what I command you.
Philippians 2:12-13 (ESV) 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Matthew 25:23-30 (ESV) 23 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed, 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is yours.’ 26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
Throughout the New Testament it’s proven over and over again that obedience, works and production (fruit) is mandatory if we are to be—and stay—saved.
FIVE. Salvation is depicted as easy and/or permanent.
Jesus didn’t die on the cross to make it easy for us to get saved. He died so it would be possible for us to get saved.
There is a temptation to withdraw from the pressures of persecution, the call to holiness, surrender and the cross, and a false-grace message is the perfect solution to that problem. It offers an escape from an urgent and fervent focus on obedience by dis-joining it from our position in Christ. The false-grace doctrine teaches that our eternity and our relationship with Jesus is already settled and we can simply relax and enjoy God. Our obedience is in no way joined to our relationship with Jesus our our eternal destiny.
Additionally, there is a misunderstanding of the process of salvation. Those impacted by the false-grace movement tend to believe that they play no part in salvation other than believing that Jesus was the Son of God. Anything other than that would scream of works and false-grace teaching has convinced them to have an averse reaction to anything that feels like human effort.
The scripture that most often comes to mind is Ephesians 2:8-9:
Ephesians 2:8-9 (ESV) 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
First, this scripture is quite often misunderstood. It is NOT saying that works don’t play a part in salvation. It IS saying that works ALONE can’t save us. Basically, we can’t say, “Thanks Jesus for dying on the cross for me, and rising from the dead. Great job! But, you know, I’m not really interested in your version of salvation. So, I reject the cross and the resurrection… it’s just too narrow for me. Instead, I will give $1 million to a local church and will buy my way into Heaven. I’ll pay the price myself.”
We can’t pay the price. We can’t substitute Jesus’ payment for our own.
But, that doesn’t mean we don’t work in RESPONSE to and in ACCORDANCE with the price that only Jesus could pay. We love Ephesians 2:8-9, but usually leave off verse 10:
Ephesians 2:10 (ESV) 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
We were created for good works. Paul reveals that we receive the Spirit via hearing by faith and not of works, yet that does not communicate to us that works are not to be expected. First faith, then works and not the other way around.
James 2:14 (ESV) 14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
It’s a rhetorical question. The answer, of course, is no. Faith without works cannot save us. This means, if we have faith in Jesus, worship him, pray to him, honor him… but don’t obey, we cannot presume to be saved. False-grace theology would not agree with this.
James 2:18-20 (ESV) 18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?
The false-grace movement is shouting, “Show me your faith apart from works!” The question must be, “Are we like demons who have faith (believe) or do we also work in response to the mandates of God?”
It’s easy and common to be falsely saved, but to truly be saved requires an extreme price—both on the part of Jesus and on our part. We can’t do his part and he can’t do ours—and this does have eternal implications. The false-grace message that minimizes obedience and works absolutely does result in people being cast into eternal fire.
So you’re saying that Jesus’ work on the cross isn’t enough to secure salvation? If I can lose my salvation then HIs work wasn’t enough and I need to add something to it? I’m either saved by His grace alone or I’m not. Receiving His love and grace by faith IS easy. The more I receive and the more I enjoy His life the more I want to be set apart for Him. It’s the empowering effect of pure grace in my life. The old fear of preachers saying, “the grace message will give people a license to sin” is saying that they don’t trust God’s ability or His Spirit to guide people’s life. As a result churches preach behavior modification and attempt to bring change from the outside in. They mix grace with the law. Even if they don’t preach law directly they imply God’s disappointment with them. This is dry husk of religion that has made a mess of things. God’s pure, unfiltered love and grace is the only hope for the world. For you to say “to truly be saved requires an extreme price—both on the part of Jesus and on our part” is to say you need to add something to Christ’s one time sacrifice. Please take this to the Lord in prayer. I’m not trying to debate you. Talk to Jesus yourself. That’s the whole point of the Gospel anyway, isn’t it? A relationship with Him? The Gospel message is clear when you see it, and to preach another gospel is… well you know … This is serious stuff. I never take the time to comment on things like this but I’m telling you this is important.
We know that faith alone save us… And if we continue in sin there remains no sacrifice for it… We play a huge role in the salvation process. We work it out with fear and trembling… And if we endure to the end we will indeed be saved.
I meant to say faith alone does not save us.
@johnburton OK, just so it’s clear… you’re saying Jesus’ sacrifice isn’t enough to secure salvation. You’re view of those verses is through the lense of the law. Mine is through the finished work. God’s New Covenant has been eternally secured by His own work. God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. The contract can’t be broken because He cannot deny HImself. If we are faithless He remains faithful. Even the faith that receives grace is from Him. By grace you’re saved through faith and that NOT of yourself. He is the Author and Finisher and has given a measure of faith to everyone. Romans 5 is so clear, having been justified by faith we have peace with God… and again… having been justified by His blood. The entire cosmos has been reconciled to Him. Hebrews 8,9, and 10 lays out the details of the New Covenant so clearly. We have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Christ once for all… and again… by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. Grace is so big I not only experience salvation through Christ alone, grace has perfected me, made me holy, made me righteous, and made me a child of God! The problem is much of the church and it’s teachers are confusing people’s actions with who they really are in their essential spirit-man. We preach that we have to act more godly to be holy. We don’t realize the power of what Christ has done TO us. He has made us righteous. He has made us holy. When we renew our mind to this truth then we begin to manifest that through our lives. We can yield to His Spirit within us and express His life and love to the world. It is most enjoyable and this is the kingdom of God! It’s not in eating and drinking but in righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost! You better know this one thing, he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. I’m in Him and He’s in me. You really think there is the possibility that He will divorce us and leave us? He is not like you and I. He is God and He has established and new and better covenant. Listen, I’m a revival guy too. I know this challenges our “strategies” to take our city and see revival. It takes the control out of our hands. It’s not about us or our egos. I’ve been crucified with Him. If One died then all have died. Now I live by His life in me. This is the great awakening that is the essence of seeing the revival you and I want to see. This is the pure Gospel and this is message of the first century church that exploded like wildfire. They didn’t have the new testament bible. When they did get an epistle here and there to read it is filled with the revelation of grace as found in the face of Jesus Christ. If there is one thing to be fearful about, it is teaching others who look up to me to follow another gospel. The humble will hear and be glad and at least consider and take it to the Lord in honest prayer.
@theTruthisaPerson @johnburton No, Jesus’ sacrifice isn’t enough to secure salvation. If it were, every person on the planet would be saved. It’s a Universalist’s position. Our response to Jesus’ sacrifice is a critical part of it.It sounds like you are arguing for once saved, always saved… which is not an uncommon belief. I don’t subscribe to it myself however.
@johnburton Hey bro my previous reply is filled with nothing but the Word. I’m not giving you my opinion so you’ll have to take it up with the Big Guy. I’m not Universalist, although Christ has reconciled the world to the Father. It’s still up to each person if they want to receive it. Once it’s received Christ lives in you, and you live in Him. I’m seated with Him in heavenly places. I don’t need to try and get closer to Him or offer him my life. My life is dead and gone and I’m a new creation. His life and Spirit is in me. If you think God will somehow reverse that processes because I don’t live up to HIs standards then you’ve fallen from grace. You foolish Galatians is how Paul put it. You need new glasses. Grace and the revelation of the new covenant is everywhere in the Word.
@johnburton @theTruthisaPerson I would sincerely ask you John to reread “theTruthisaperson”s paragraph above again, this time do not be quick to filter what he is saying by labeling him in a religious camp. At no point did @theTruthisaPerson hint at “once saved always saved” His entire response was straight up writings from Paul’s gospel. Even if our union with God “process” or “immediate” is %1 me %99 God that would be like adding %1 poop to brownie mix.
To say that “Jesus’ sacrifice is not enough to secure salvation” is a VERY dangerous statement. By this statement you are saying that God failed on the cross, and that it is our duty as the church to patch up the earth, clean ourselves up so God can finally return. Well, if this were truly the case we would all be going to hell in a hand basket! Thankfully Jesus did the work that only He could do so that mankind could live a life that Christ deserved! That is good news! Jesus Christ cleansed us because 1) He knew that all we had to clean ourselves with were bloody vaginal pads and 2) He was the only one capable of doing it.
It does not make sense for Paul to preach to people of the Law and say things like “Guess what? Christ died! Now, you can continue on trying to fulfill the law by abstaining from pulled pork sandwiches and snipping off mans private parts, because Christ gave you the power to do so” Paul time and time again says how trying to fulfill the law for righteousness is useless and stupid!
However, as sons of God we get to do works FROM righteousness. This honors God. Of course sons of God will do good works because that is the overflow of who they are. A dog does not strive to be a dog nor does a tree strive to be a tree. Works FOR righteousness on the other hand is despised by God. God is not impressed with how loud i sing or loud the music is or how many people show up to the prayer meeting nor with the length of your prayer tassel, God is only concerned with people who rest in there identity and daily drink from His cup of the new promise by receiving the Free gift of His grace. Grace is a gift not a paycheck. A paycheck is something you earn, God only gives gifts, not paychecks. The only role for believers of Christ, is none other than well wouldn’t you know it… BELIEVE. It is so simple that all of mankind can receive what Christ gave. There is not a special club in heaven with “premium benefits” for how many days they fasted, there is however the greatest reward of all and that reward is JESUS! the best reward is not gold plated underwear for dead religious works, our reward is Christ!
Jesus Christ is the most appealing reward of heaven!
Now, you will love this, because we are now in Christ Jesus and our old sinful nature was destroyed with Him on the cross, will this mean we will sin more? Rom 6:1 “Of course Not!” You are a Son of God now, you don’t have to sin!
Paul is not saying that it is impossible to sin after you get saved. Jesus destroyed our tendency to sin, not our capability to sin. But, even if we do sin 1 John 2 says that we repent and renew our minds to our true identity in God. In other words we “Hit Delete” declare “That is not who i am, I am a Son of God” and we receive the IMMEDIATE love of God, not wait a week or two after you do some fasting and do some good works so that God is less pissed at what you just did or looked at.
You don’t have to live the rest of your life as a miserable sinner repeating the steps on how to get more anointed more clean more (fill in the blank). Just as Christ was in the world so are we! We no longer live in our old self, it was completely destroyed when Jesus died. Jesus did not just die for you, He died AS you, He was our substitute! Praise God! Anyone can choose to believe! That is great news! it is open to anyone who thirsts! Once we believe and confess with our mouth who God made us to be through the work of Jesus, we are now UNITED with Him, we are a New Creation, not a new version of our old self. We don;t have to sin if we don’t want to. Why Should we sense we have “Every Spiritual Blessing in Christ” “All things that pertain to life and godliness” We get everything! and we don’t have to jump through hoops or steps or processes all we have to do is the ‘Work of God’ which is to Believe in the one who sent Christ. Effortless Christianity.
@johnburton So you are saying Ephesians 2:8 is a lie and there is more we must do?
I love you John. You are just so full of the fullness of God. You are a beautiful son! (Colossias 2:9-10) (Ephesians 1:5) It grieves me to see people trapped in religious bondage and to view God as a mad God that we have to prove ourselves to. I lived in guilt and condemnation for my entire life and finally was set free by the GOOD NEWS. This news is that God paid the price for us! I mean what do we think Jesus really did on the cross? Did He nail ever sin to it or not? (Colossians 2:13-15) Adding law to something NEVER works. Look at the foolish Galatians. Look at history and look where we are today in society. The government wants to add more law more rules and regulations. It is never about laws. Adding more law will not change people. Its the transformation of their hearts. My bible says its the goodness of God that brings man to repentance. (Romans 2:4) If we step into our true identity that Jesus paid for how could we go on living in sin? That would be so silly! That is what Paul says in romans 6. He is like you idiots do you not hear what I am saying? How can you sin if you are dead to sin! Do you believe you are dead to sin or not? It is so interesting to me that you think by teaching Christ crucified and nothing else, this will cause people to fall into sin. Christ crucified says we are DEAD TO SIN. It says He took upon sin so that we could be free from it! How could teaching someone that they are not a sinner make them sin more? That is just such an oxymoron. We are not universalists and do not believe that everyone is saved and nothing matters in life. That is such a silly accusation. And if you talk to any of these “false grace teachers” they would tell you the same thing. We do believe that word of God is actually true and Christ paid for the whole world (1 John 2:2). It is up to the individual to accept this “FREE GIFT” . Obviously our actions have responsibility with them. The point of the good news is not that you can do whatever you want. Its that you get to have a relationship with a LOVING, GOOD, NOT SELF SEEKING, daddy. Do you realize that why we were still sinners Christ died for us??? (Romans 5:8) That is so insane!!! Do you think that He did not know we would still sin in the future? Did you know the lamb was slain before the foundations of the earth??? (Rev 13:8) I have never been filled with more Joy more Love and more “good works” until I understood the true gospel that paul preached and that I am NOT a sinner but a son. If we spend all our time trying to prove ourselves to God we are very self seeking and miss out on loving everyone around us. Once you realize the goodness of God and TURN and change my mind and renew my mind with the mind of Christ (repent) only then can your life change! You have to understand that God can only be good.
John you are so great! I want you to understand that your religious striving to be good does not make God love you more. He cannot love you any more than he already does! You can’t get any closer to God than you already are. He is dwelling inside of you!!! The only thing you should be striving for is entering into His rest. (Hebrews 4). The only thing we can do is repent more! (change our mind more) towards to truth and reality that we are sons and walk FROM that place not FOR that place. You are a saint! Paul writes to saints, not to sinners or people that are almost there. You are a beautiful shiny son of God! This is good news my friends!
@sonofaking Thanks for the reply!
You mentioned something that most people bring up in regard to this topic.
You said, “I want you to understand that your religious striving to be good does not make God love you more.”
I find it interesting that it’s mentioned, though I never deal with that issue of love. I never communicate that we are to work to get God to love us. He loves us. Period.
We don’t perform to score points. We don’t obey to convince God we are good enough. We don’t respond to be lovable.
That’s a completely different topic of discussion. Most of what I’m talking about is continuing in sin, while presuming that it’s OK. It’s not.
Have you ever met a Christian who refuses to forgive? Or who refuses to stop living a life of lust… or bitterness… etc.?
Those are sins… that have not been dealt with, and when we willingly sin without repenting, without confessing, we are at great risk of Hell.
God loves us all… but that doesn’t mean we are all saved.
@johnburton
I am sorry if that came off harsh. To me it does seem a bit like religious striving because you are saying we need to try to avoid sin. That means it is in your own power to stop sinning. That means you have to work at something. Jesus said we don’t have to work we just have to believe in the truth. He says this is the will of God, to believe in Him and the ONe whom He sent.
As far as someone who is in a lifestyle of sin, telling them to stop sinning because God does not like it is not going to solve anything. Paul always tells these groups of people who they are first then says “Therefore consider yourself dead to blah blah blah..”
He tells them their identity and says since you are not a sinner.. stop acting like one. Do you realize that if you believe (which means to be fully convinced) that you are a Son of God, it is impossible to sin???
To continue in sin is turning your eyes off God. It is turning from the truth (reality) that you are dead to sin and alive in Christ. Repentance is turning your eyes right back to God and the truth and reality that you are a son. Repentance does not mean apologizing to God. Why would we apologize to God for something He does not even remember we did? He just wants our eye to be single so that we can be filled with light. He wants our eye fixed on TRUTH who is Jesus a person, who is the redeemer and slayer of sin 🙂
The gospel is so simple! A little kid can get it. We cannot make this more complex than how Paul preached it. Its about stepping into an amazing reality which is such good news. It is not a process of works or striving to be good or striving to not sin.
@sonofaking So you and I both agree that we must repent. That’s key. We are also told to confess our sins.
If we continue in sin, there remains no sacrifice…. so, we can get saved, and have all of our past sins forgiven… and then choose to continue in sin, and that sin is not covered. Revelation tells us that our names can be blotted out of the book of life.
So, if we sin after we are saved, we can’t ignore it presuming God doesn’t even know we did it… we must confess and repent. It’s joyous to do so!
I like how John Bevere teaches so well… Having the love of God ensures we don’t fall into legalism, and having the fear of God ensures we don’t fall into lasciviousness.
We don’t have the power to stop sinning, but we do have the responsibility to stop sinning, which means we must tap into another power-the power of the cross. The cross doesn’t simply cover past sins, it empowers us to not sin.
@johnburton
Yes but what is your definition of repent? Because the word repent in the new testament is taken from the greek word “metanoia” which means to change ones mind or to turn. Repent in the bible does not mean to say sorry to God. Just means turing to the truth.
I believe realizing you are a sinner is very important if you are not saved. We must initially confess that. In fact if you deny christ and say you have no sin you are a liar (1 John 1). We are born into sin through the blood line of Adam. However, after you confess your sin and step into the reality of Christ, you are then baptized into his death and resurrected with him as a new creation. You have a new bloodline through Jesus. (This is in Romans 5 for those who may be reading this comment) All things are new when you give up your old life to Christ. It is at that moment when you are born again and all things are new and you are no longer a sinner but a son adopted in. What a glorious thing!
It is also very good to confess our sin to each other so that we can pray for each other out of thankfulness for the the truth (Jesus) and build each other up in truth which is the reality that we are not sinners because we are sons of God 🙂
@sonofaking Yep, that’s correct regarding repentance. Confession is a part of it too… it’s talking to God… relational.
A primary point is that we are simply to strive for holiness. It’s a calling for all Believers.
I usually don’t become preoccupied with messages I don’t agree with, but there’s something about this article that really bothers me. I found this quote today which sums up my discomfort:
“Nothing makes people in the church more angry than grace. It’s ironic: we stumble into a party we weren’t invited to and find the uninvited standing at the door making sure no other uninviteds get in. Then a strange phenomenon occurs: as soon as we are included in the party because of Jesus’ irresponsible love, we decide to make grace ‘more responsible’ by becoming self-appointed Kingdom Monitors, guarding the kingdom of God, keeping the riffraff out (which as I understand it, are who the kingdom of God is supposed to include.)” – Michael Yaconelli
John,
I want to thank you for speaking so clearly about this all-too-important issue. The people preaching the extreme grace message, neglecting dozens and dozens of other NT verses (post-Cross, post-Resurrection, post-Ascension), are demonstrating a total ignorance of Church History. What you are teaching is exactly what the earliest Christians, the spiritual children and grandchildren of the Apostles themselves were teaching. These were the very ones who preserved the NT writings and ultimately under the Holy Spirit’s direction gave us the NT canon that we all consider to be the Word of God. The scariest part is that some of what these extreme grace teachers are teaching is what some of the early gnostic heretics taught! Since these grace teachers don’t know early Church history well enough, they don’t realize that they are handling and interpreting Paul’s doctrines like the heretics. This debate is not new. To the man, the earliest Christians (I am thinking here men like Ignatius, Clement, Polycarp, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian and I could go on) would reject the conclusions that men like Joseph Prince are propagating in the name of truth. To dismiss these men and say they were “all wrong” and that somehow a modern teacher has discovered the real intention/meaning of the Apostle Paul is just absurd.
It wasn’t until certain gnostic doctrines infected Augustine’s teaching in the late 4th and early 5th century (due to his background in gnostic Manichaeism) that a foundation was laid for the false teachings found in Calvinism to infect Western Christianity. These grace teachers, although many are not Calvinists, are building on many of those gnostic tendencies that crept in via Augustine after AD396.
Again John – you are boldly declaring truth and standing against a false teaching that has led and is leading many to a shipwrecked faith. Thank you.
@JosephRubeo
Wonderful! Thank you for commenting – I have been reading and listening to Joseph Prince and have been greatly encouraged after being a Christian for 36 years and struggling with the assurance of salvation for most of that time.
John,
The day you offer all of your fine works for free to the world like your speaking engagement’s, books, web designs etc…. Once you work for free like Paul did instead of making a buck, is the day I will listen to any of this hypocrisy. Just like the rich man who was unwilling to give up his material life you will not be able to give up yours. Therefore you are just like him. Jesus gave that example to point out to each and everyone of us that no matter how much we think we are sinless we are not and never can be. It is not about being sinless but about believing in him alone for salvation. If we could get to heaven on a sinless life then Jesus was not necessary. Job was a perfect example of that. He was a God fearing man seen as “blameless”. If a man could be blameless and God fearing like Job why do we need Jesus? Job did all this in the OT before the Holy Spirit of truth embodied believers. Yet Jesus still had to be sacrificed. If you are claiming salvation is based on Jesus + your works then you better make sure every single thing you do is perfect John. Good luck with that because you better be sinless. And by the way if you claim you are without sin then you are a liar and the truth is not in you. Your are saved by grace through faith not by works so man can boast.
rys1978 Please understand that your position requires that you erase a lot of scripture from the Word of God. I simply believe the cross of Christ is powerful enough to grace us to live holy lives. Behavior does play a part without a doubt. The Bible is filled with references to that fact.
johnburton rys1978 Do you believe you are living a holy life? And if so how? Jesus said the only work God has for us is to believe in the one He sent. in other words John 3:16. He did not say and live a life full of struggling to work out salvation by not sinning in order to receive eternal life. No, He said to believe in the one He sent, or in other words John 3:16. That’s pretty straight forward it can’t be misinterpreted. It is not about self righteousness. God counts our faith as righteous not our works. You seem to be assuming God is giving people today some sort of supernatural ability to be super sinless people because of the Holy Spirit. If that were the case we would be in a utopia by now. We will not be made perfect until the resurrection. Even Paul wrote about his struggles with the sinful flesh.
John,
I think the entire point here and missing piece that links the salvation by grace or works argument comes down to love. Because James and Paul can not contradict each other which on the surface looks like that. But let’s look at what they are really saying. Paul basically says that if we do all kinds of works but don’t love we are nothing. And James basically says if we have faith alone but don’t love we are nothing. So it comes down to faith shown through love. Love for God and love for others. Jesus even says that if we simply love one another we will fulfill all the commandments. So, first we must have faith in Christ alone for salvation. Second that faith should in a genuine believer manifest in faithful love towards others. The bible says we love because God first loved us. So when we stop and truly marvel at what Christ did for us in our place and we harness God’s loving grace through faith we free ourselves to love in a way God finds pleasing.
Because atheists show works in love but they have no faith in Jesus. Is that pleasing to God? Because we know we can’t please God without faith. So any love towards someone else outside of faith in God must not be true love therefore sinful. We know that true love comes form God in fact God is love. What does love look like? The bible says it does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always preserves. Love never fails. The “always trusts” part is on thing that gets me. Because if we always trust God with our salvation we are acting in a loving way since the bible says love always trusts. As a believer I have to trust God that no matter what happens he has me. Which is faith manifesting in loving trust which is faithful works out of love. In fact it’s the only work God has for us. It all comes down to His love for us and ours for Him. Hopefully we can agree on this.
What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord will never count against them.” (Romans 4:3-8 NIV)
This verse below has been one of the best verses I have come to know. Why? It defines two of the biggest questions that have ever come up. What is believe? and What is Works? And tagged on to “What is Works?” is What is different between the Works mentioned in Eph 2 and the Works mentioned in James 2.
Believe = Cleave to, trust, rely on, and have faith in God’s Messenger.
Works according to James = Believe
Works according to Paul = Obey the law.
so yes the Bible is not a contradiction when you understand it. But until you take what Christ said and hold it up to both passages. You will never understand how similar they are.
John 6:28-29
Amplified Bible (AMP)
28 They then said, What are we to do, that we may [habitually] be working the works of God? [What are we to do to carry out what God requires?]
29 Jesus replied, This is the work (service) that God asks of you: that you believe in the One Whom He has sent [that you cleave to, trust, rely on, and have faith in His Messenger].
Ok, now for those who say that Ephesians 2 actually means we no longer have to obey Christ. Think again. Read below and these are the 2 best of many verses. In fact I can even give you one from Paul himself. So study them, read them, and understand that James 2 faith and works come together. you need both. Romans 6:1-4
New International Version (NIV)Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ
6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.1 John 2:6
New International Version (NIV)
6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.1 John 1:6
New International Version (NIV)
6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth.
johnburton Hold on son. You just goofed. Faith alone does not save us? You just said that a piece out of the Bible is wrong. I am all for your side, but please don’t surcome to pressure of trying to please everyone. Remember, Christ came to piss people off with truth. Use it. I commented some verses and an understanding of how it works. Use them to help.
JohnWood1johnburtonJames 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
Again faith alones saves us. Read the posts a top. The works of God is that we have faith. Your works is only evidence of Change in heart. You don’t keep stealing cookies from cookie jar when you truly appologize. So why keep sinning when you believe? faith is what healed sinners in Christs time. Evidence of faith was the diligence of cutting through mass crowds to be healed. The reason American Churches don’t see healing like those of over seas is simple. They don’t believe as they say. We say we believe in Christ yet we rely on having a job before we help others and once we have a job we become to busy to care. We replaced Christ with things. Faith saves us. America don’t know faith and seldom is it taught correctly. Everything is a heart matter. God died for all who believe. John 3:16 makes that clear. But works is a vague term. The Bible don’t contradict. But it is often not correctly read. James is talking of a heart change. How can we say we believe if we have yet to rely on Christ? Believe = Cleave to, trust, rely on, and have faith in God’s Messenger. Christ even said our works of God are to believe. Stop confusing thus works with obeying levitical law. Yes Christ also said if you love me you will obey my commands. Remember it is a heart change from disobedience to obedience. And in this faith alone can save if a change of heart backs it up. But if you obey laws to get saved and negate Christ altogether then you will fail. You need Christ. But you can’t take james 2 and neglect ephesians 2 either. Understand the meaning.
JosephRubeo You have faith. Even the demons believe, and they tremble. But do not be deceived. Those who love God will obey His commandments, and His commandments are not burdensome. Those who are justified are doers, and not hearers. As it is written, the righteous shall live by Faith. Do I do works because they are an approval or inapproval of my life to God? By NO means. But I can tell you this much, if you love God, obey His commandments. And know this: If you have tasted the heavenly gift, Holiness, sanctification, consecration, and seperation from the world by GRACE are GIFTS from God, that allow us to be with Him intimately, yet still live on this earth. Be Holy as God is holy. Without holiness, you will NOT see God..and quite frankly, you are coming from a perspective of “I don’t really HAVE to do anything so I don’t want to.” I am coming from a “I have received love, and these commands that are given, are the most GRACIOUS offerings from God to be able to abide in His love until I see Him face to face.” One pulls away from God, one draws closer. I tend to take truth as anything that draws us CLOSER to God..
OneWhoGodLoves JosephRubeo Of course you can always understand that Christ died for you. YOU ARE NOT YOUR OWN. Your body was created by God, for God and is to be used the way God wants it. What is so hard about listening to the one who created you? Obeying God’s commands isn’t saying to obey levitical law. There is God’s Commands and Man’s law. God just wants you to obey his commands. That is all. Think of it this way. Most don’t understand God until they are married and have kids why? Because think of it. Your kids steal and lie to you about it. Does it mean they are no longer family? Nope. But they are still going to be disciplined. God has his house rules to. Yet we disobey and then tell him we don’t have to listen? I wonder how often God laughs or cries because of what we say. But as we get older and respect our parents more we ask before taking cookies why? Because out of love we don’t want to upset our parents. Or like Husbands and wives as newly weds. You do everything to make the other happy. It should be the same with us and God. Not because we have to or because we are compelled or obligated to. But because we want to out of love.
I think you need to realize that when Jesus was still walking on earth during his 3 years plus ministry on earth, many things He said was still referring to the Old Covenant and the transition to the need of the New Covenant of Grace. for example: Jesus did ask to puck out your eyes and cut your hands when they offend you. How come we do not see Christians doing this so far ? If you want to follow His word literally. Jesus wants us to realize the needs for savior. The New covenant of Grace only started after the Cross. Rightly dividing the covenant is very crucial in understanding the Bible.
Christians who are under Grace, will never live in sins. How could we live in sins when we are under Grace?:
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!
The same accusation to Apostle Paul was launched against him, the same way today against Grace. It is not new. But if there is no same accusation, that means the Grace is not the same Grace as Apostle Paul preached ! Why is that today Christianity receive no such accusation ? Because I submit to you, that preachers no longer preach the same preaching as Apostle Paul preached in his first churches.
May peace be with you.
I agreee with you John.Rightly dividing the Word of Truth,reading the words on it’s proper context and always read the scripture according to the lens of Grace are the keys to understand Jesus’ words in the New Testament.We don’t mix messages of condemnation and works which came from the Law and mixed it with love and mercy which came from Grace to get a good dose of message.The Gospel is the Gospel of Grace,nothing else.It’s about Jesus plus nothing.
Grace to You John Burton!
This was a right on comment IMO!
Yet we hear often from the only Grace believers mouth confessions that they sin daily and they do not feel convicted! Because they are under Grace! WHAT ABOUT DEMAS who travelled with Paul in ministry and forsook him…? 2Tim 4:10..
PHILEMON 24 …read also 2 Timothy 1:13-15
….all those in Asia have turned away from me, among whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes…
Christians who are under Grace, will never live in sins. How could we live in sins when we are under Grace? when the Bible says it so clearly:
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
Therefore only Christians who do not believe in Grace will have the capacity of sin having dominion over them.
Grace is the person of Jesus Himself, Embracing Grace is embracing Jesus. How can we embrace and love Jesus and yet at the same time love sins? impossible.!
You don’t need grace or the law to sin, people sin just fine without grace. We don’t sin everyday that is why 1 John says “If we sin we have an advocate…” IF we sin NOT when we sin. I find more people living sinless lives by grace than I ever did by those who were preached the law.
Who in the world is saying that we don’t feel convicted over sin? Of course we are convicted! We are in an intimate relationship with the Living God! Sin produces death and pain. The difference is not that we are convicted and condemned by our sin, but we are convicted and motivated by His love, righteousness and the relationship. We come BOLDLY to the throne of grace. Not because we have it altogether, but because we don’t. The boldness is in the knowledge of God and the fact that our sin and flesh are not being held against us and He ever lives to make intercession for us. We come to the throne of grace in WEAKNESS. Not because we approach God in our so-called holiness.
I agree with you, John! The church that I attend ( quite a big church) has 80% of the men in it addicted to porn. I cannot understand this! But again, they preach OSAS. Sermons are quite benign and motivational.
Wow! The church you went to has a porn problem among men. Ummmmm…. ALL the church has a porn problem with their men. I am sure the one you are in has that same problem. Unless you found the one absolutely pure and perfectly holy gathering. Please get a clue. All humans struggle with the flesh and sin. It’s just that many religious folks have gotten very good at hiding it and looking good. They have no understanding of the process of Christian growth and the different stages of maturity. So they judge and condemn, causing their brothers and sisters to hide in shame with fear of condemnation and shunning. The pious arrogance is way more akin to the Pharisees than the Christ!
I’m confused. What’s the difference between your theology and Roman Catholic theology?
John burton screwed up. You don’t understand grace AT ALL.
This is at the very least ludricrous, John Burton.So what’s the difference between those under grace if we behave like those in the OT who had to make a blood offering very time they sinned? I mean, Jesus died for ALL Sins…….past,present and future of those not even born yet. The only sin remaining is refusing to accept what He did.
Acceptance of Jesus’ sacrifice is not the only condition of salvation. We have to endure to the end, we must work out our salvation with fear and trembling, we must ensure we don’t fall away. There’s no salvation without faith and there’s no faith without works according to scripture.
HI John .. i agree all what you said about the gospel of provision or hype-grace etc.its all good .. Elsies husband Henry
I am sure you don’t enjoy reading,much less studying, Paul’s epistles.LOL.
John Burton, You are actually saying Jesus’ sacrifice & finished work is not good enough? Jesus did not do a FINISHED WORK? Jesus died in vain bcoz you still need to complete His work? you are saying salvation = Jesus + you ? You have forgotten the value of that one person (Jesus) the loveliness of Jesus and the perfection of His FINISHED WORK.
John Burton, don’t worry about right living, bcoz when you believe right, you will automatically and effortlessly bear good fruits. Don’t look at yourself but keep looking at Jesus, by BEHOLDING Jesus you will be transformed from glory to glory not by your own might but by the power of Holy Spirit. And this truth indeed will set you free.
Hi John,please make sure to read the Scripture in it’s PROPER context.
Because when you say that we have to work out our salvation,you’re trying to say that the FINISHED WORK of CHRIST is not yet finished and so we have to put our obedience to the law.
You are dishonoring the work of Christ by mixing some dose of grace and law.Stop preaching this message of works and condemnation.Start speaking the TRUTH and that is Grace (Jesus).
Grace to you John Burton 🙂
You didn’t answer my question. Can I refuse to forgive someone and still be forgiven myself? Can I freely sin and still be saved?
This is my answer – A BIG YES!
Mark, that would classify you as a heretic. I’m not meaning to be disrespectful, but that is not the Gospel. It’s a doctrine of demons that is sending millions of supposed Christians to Hell.
LOL. So John,let me ask you this,have you obeyed the 603 laws plus the 10 commandments in your entire life? or let’s say, have you prayed enough?worship enough?give enough? or read God’s word enough?
coz,what you’re trying to say that my salvation is still based on my obedience,not Jesus’ obedience?
I want you to read this and read this in it’s context –
Romans 5:19 (King James Version)
19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Your Comment “coz,what you’re trying to say that my salvation is still based on my obedience,not Jesus’ obedience?
Answer Actually BOTH………… Your salvation is made available by His amazing obedience, but is also depend on your obedience as the following scripture prove. False Grace preachers focus exclusively on the scriptures that speak of Jesus’ obedience and neglect the scriptures that speak of our need for obedience……. therefore they come into error, not rightly dividing the Word of Truth
Luk 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and DO NOT DO WHAT I SAY?
Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY HE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’
Mat 7:23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Rom 6:16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey–whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to OBEDIENCE,
WHICH LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS?
2Th 1:8 He will punish those who do not know God and DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL of our Lord Jesus.
Jhn 15:10 IF YOU OBEY MY COMMANDS, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.
Rom 2:7 To
those who by PERSISTENCE in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
Rom 2:8 But for those who are self-seeking and who REJECT THE TRUTH AND FOLLOW EVIL, there will be wrath and anger.
1Pe 2:8 and, “A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.” [fn] THEY STUMBLE BECAUSE THEY DISOBEY THE MESSAGE–which is also what they were destined for.
1Pe 4:17 For
it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with
us, what will
the outcome be for those WHO DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF GOD?
Mat 6:24 “No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.
1Jo 2:5 But IF ANYONE OBEYS HIS WORD, God’s love is truly made complete in him. THIS IS HOW WE KNOW WE ARE IN HIM:
1Jo 2:6 Whoever claims to live in him MUST WALK as Jesus did
Hbr 5:9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for ALL WHO OBEY HIM
2Thess 1:8 He will punish those who do not know God and DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS.
2Thess 1:9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might
Will you believe the Bible or your favorite teacher????????
“Obedience” to the teaching of Paul on grace IS obedience to Christ. If one is obedient to Paul’s teaching, he cannot be obedient to the teaching of the Law at the same time.
Hi Gerald. Firstly Obedience to the New Testament is
predominately what is required. Secondly many on the scriptures above were written
by PAUL, did you not notice.Thirdly PAUL said this “For the GRACE OF GOD
has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches US to say “NO” to
ungodliness and worldly passions, and TO LIVE self-controlled, upright and godly
lives in this present age, Tit 2:11-12,
IS this not Paul writing, is this not CLEARLY teaching that
the true Grace of God will produce OBEDIENCE in us. WE are saved because of
Christ’s obedience and also our own obedience according to the Apostle Paul,
2Thess 1:8 He will punish those who do not know God and DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS.
I think the problem is you are confusing the works of the
law and the works of faith see James 2:15-25, James answers this problem as
well as other scriptures, BUT unfortunately many false grace preachers miss
this point entirely. Our faith in Christ MUST produce a change in us for to be
real faith, the evidence of the new birth is the New life. FULL STOP. PAUL also
stated this in the reverse if our life has NOT changed we are deceived, when he
clearly address Christians.
“Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? DO NOT BE DECEIVED: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor
swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” 1Co 6:9-10
The point is the grace of God empowers us to overcome, if we
understand the truth Grace of God. We are Not under the law of Moses, but we are called to be obedient to the commandments of the New Testament and the ONLY way that we can do this is to be empowered by grace that produces OBEDIENCE in us. Not by our own strength as the Israelite s attended in the Old Testament. Which become the works of the Law.
This fact remains: If one claims a believer’s subsequent sins are not already forgiven by the work of the cross— he is denying the Lord’s
sacrifice of its meaning and value. If someone claims they NEVER sin,
God calls them a liar. I would go farther than that and say: If one has not
admitted to God that they have a sinful nature and cannot be perfect, and then ask for Christ to save them by HIS righteousness—- they are NOT SAVED.
If we repent, all is well. If we sin deliberately, continually, we can’t presume to still be saved.
1 John2:18
In fairness, and I do believe I know the Gospel of Jesus as the Christ, I don’t think perfect doctrine saves anyone, either. It’s about Jesus, and His sacrifice and His overcoming life, not us or our stinkin’ thinkin’. Good doctrine makes for an easier and more fruitful life, not salvation.
I think all we can say is “What is impossible with man, is possible with God.” Go ahead, and seek your way through the ‘eye of the needle’ in your own strength. You’ll find it impassable. It’s a Jesus-shaped opening, and He is THE WAY, THE TRUTH, and THE LIFE.
Thank you for your mention of 1 Cor. 6:9-10, I’d like to continue with 1 Cor. 6:10-11
11 And some of you used to be like this. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Somehow, Paul brings it back to their identity as CHILDREN OF GOD and NOT AS EARTHLY MAN LABELS. Geeze, these people who were acting out of accord with their identities in Christ needed to be reminded that they belonged to Christ.
It’s a strange teaching Paul has there, it seems he should have been corrected and told “Tell them they’re sinners, and they’re destined for Hell and judgment. They think they’re saved, but they’ve undone all of the Cross of Christ. Now they have no choice but to sacrifice bulls and goats again, even though that never washed away a single sin ever in history. It must be the only way!”
Thank You for your comments. In 1 Cor 6:9. Paul is addressing Christians, who have
been saved and with reference to your comment “Tell them they’re sinners, and they’re
destined for Hell and judgment” Paul could not say it any stronger could he, he is actually saying what you claim he is NOT saying, Paul said… “Or do you not know that wrongdoers will NOT inherit the kingdom of God? DO NOT BE DECEIVED”….and again “Neither the sexually immoral ……etc will inherit the kingdom of God”.
The natural reading of the verse is obvious. But this not the only place where this idea is expressed, Paul repeats the same warning repeatedly in the NT, some examples
are;
The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and
debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I WARN YOU, as I did before, that those who live like this will not
inherit the kingdom of God. Gal 5:19-21
Note the word LIVE, not just fall into sin and seek forgiveness.. God will forgive, but a habitual lifestyle
If you do not inherit the kingdom, what other option is there. (hell)
DO NOT BE DECEIVED: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature,
from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the
Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Gal 6:7-8
Note eternal life is contrasted with destruction. (hell)
For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person–such a man is an
idolater–has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. LET NO ONE DECEIVE YOU with empty words, for because of
such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Eph 5:5-6
There are many more scriptures that prove the same point, far too many to list here
but hopefully it helps to illustrate that there is a false grace message and that Paul did not preach the out of balance message that is preached today. IS grace amazing. (yes) Are we saved by grace? (yes) Is it a free gift? (yes) Do I need to do anything apart from believe to receive that gift? (no). But Paul taught that Grace would empower us for change. And that change was important to our destiny.
“For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in
this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ” Titus 2:11-13
The foundation of walking in Grace is described above in the comment by Anne-Marie Gosser.
Going to jump in on your error. Once again, cherry picking verses to support an unbiblical doctrine. Please continue on in 1 Corinthians 6… AS SOME OF YOU WERE.
But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
Galatians 5…You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Please expound on the whole passage and context. This is childish. Weak, selective doctrine building. You start from a false premise and neglect the foundation of the message.
I think what you are missing, John, is that the love and grace of Jesus is the fuel for empowering the believer to not sin and to obey. No one can do it in their own power. I can only remain sinless and obedient in as much as I rest in the love of Jesus. His yoke is easy. My flesh would cry out for me to do it on my own but Jesus calls me to rest in Him, not to rely on my own ability or strength. Will I rest in Him perfectly? No. I am human and fraught with weakness and can easily be drawn away from resting in Him. But He will never leave me nor will He forsake me. Jesus is the source for all in me that is good and holy. I will never be the source nor will anything I do in my own power be the source. The fear and trembling He tells us to work out our salvation in is the fear and trembling that will occur when I draw close to Him and drawing close to Him always produces fear and trembling.
I hope this brings you closer to grasping how great His love and grace are for you (although you will never fully grasp it – no one does)
Much love, AM
I totally agree that it’s the grace of God that enables us. There’s no way we can do it outside of the love and grace of God. When we live from a place of deep abiding love and intimacy with Jesus, and when we are fueled by grace we are free and can break out of the prison that sin puts us in.
Why would you presume I didn’t agree with that?
Love you comment, very much into spending time in intimacy with God
I agree with you John! Read the following scripture that supports the fact that grace does not give you a license to sin.
Tit 2:11 For God has revealed His grace for the salvation of all people.
Tit 2:12 That grace instructs us to give up ungodly living and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this world,
Tit 2:13 as we wait for the blessed day we hope for when the glory of our great God and saviour Jesus Christ will appear.
Tit 2:14 He gave Himself for us, to rescue us from all wickedness and to make us a pure people who belong to Him alone and are EAGER TO DO GOOD.
And according to 1 John 1:8 if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and there is no truth in us. How in context do you need to read the Word of God to know that it is for us today? Those who disobeyed the law of Moses (10 commandments) were put to death with no mercy when they were judged, what then of those who despise the Son of God and treat as a cheap thing the blood of the covenant which purified them from sin, who insult the Spirit of grace? I think it is an insult to God to say goog is evil and evil is good. Jesus did not die on the cross to allow sin but to keep you from sinning so that the evil one cannot harm you.
First of all.Christians still sins without even asking for a license.Grace is not a license to sin.Read this:
Romans 6:1-2:What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? Of course not! Since we have died to sin, how can we continue to live in it?
Now,if you do agree to John’s message,then that would be an insult to the Finished work of Christ.
John is saying that we have to work out our salvation.
Jesus’ performance is more than enough to save and keep you or let me rephrase that – If Grace is enough to save us then Grace is enough to keep us!
The gospel is not about the sinful act of man,It’s the revelation of Jesus and His Finished work
The gospel is all about His love and His Grace.
Now if you read the context about what you have written above – Salvation which came from Grace is able to bear good fruits.
Right Believing will always lead to Right Living.not the other way around!
Jesus’ blood saves all who believe in His Finished work, not your good deed that saves you, it is the blood, and when Jesus forgave the thief on the cross, it was without any condition. He did not even ask whether the thief has refused to forgive anyone? John Burton, you mixed up the Gospel, you must rightly divide the word, most of the word that Jesus said still refereed to the Old Covenant because He had not died yet on the cross. The New Covenant of Grace starts only after the CROSS. Also read the context, to whom it was said, when it was said.? Rightly divide the word my brother. You will be deeply confused if you don’t.
Oh man, here we go. Fundamental error in systematic theology or worse relational theology with God. Tons of scripture taken out of context and misinterpreted in order to create your doctrine. If you are going to take one verse out of the sermon on the mount literally, than you MUST take all the verses literally. I would expect that there should be MANY in the church that have amputated their hands or plucked out their eyes. That you should be keeping ALL 613 laws including the Big 10. That you have arrived to PERFECTION as the Father is perfect. Seriously??? Tell me anywhere in the Apostles teaching (Post cross) that instructs us to do what Christ said on the mount? Who were His audience? What was He saying? What was the purpose of the Law? (Romans, Galatians, Hebrews). Why didn’t Peter, James or Paul ever tell us to mutilate ourselves if we sin? Do you REALLY want God to forgive you on the MERIT of your forgiveness of others and NOT the merit of the work of Christ on the cross? Jesus’s message was to make the rich man sad and the religious folks mad…Mission accomplished! Jesus’s message on the mount was to put the Law on steroids and set the bar so high, NO human on earth could possibly achieve it. In one sermon, Jesus delivers the message of our absolute hopelessness to be able to meet God’s holiness and right standing with Him. That our self-righteous efforts are futile and meaningless. Paul himself says that according to Law he was BLAMELESS and counted it all as dung. Paul made his public confession that the things he wants to do (because of the Holy Spirit in him), he does NOT do. The things he hates (in the flesh) he does. (Sounds like a sin struggle). And then thanks God for Jesus. His High Priest, Redeemer, Intercessor, Deliver, Savior. The level of ignorance here about the Gospel and soteriology is staggering. You take the sermon of the mount and somehow think that all the hearers just received it, and somehow there was some instantaneous transformation in them and they went on to do what He said perfectly? That from there on out they were holy and perfect? NO!!! They left that sermon in a desperate lostness and confusion that even going to the Law and the temple sacrifices (and the Pharisees teaching) was NEVER going to help them again. Thus the absolute desperate need for a savior to do everything they could not do. And it still remains the case today with all of us. Its called grace.
That’s a very good question… A true believer will forgive according to 2 Corinthians 5:17 we are new creations, and we will bear fruit Matthew 13:23 after receiving Christ John 1:12, John3:3, 3:16, Titus 3:5 and Ephesians 2:8-9,10. remember what God starts He finishes Philippians 1:6 and is the One who sustains us Jude 24. We were Sealed by the Holy Spirit Ephesians1:14 as a guarantee. If we live the law then Christ died in vain Galatians 2:21. The Law was given because of our Sins Galatians 3:19. That’s why Christ came for Us. Remember with one Sin we are guilty of all James 2:10. in 1 John 8:10 says if anyone says they are perfect is a liar. We are all sinners and it goes on to tell us if we fall to confess our sins and God will purify us. Has nothing to do with loosing salvation, because if that was the case then Christ failed to keep His word in John 6:36-40. It is Christ who will not loose any of us it is the Will of God. By the grace of God when we come to Christ we become new and we will grow in Him. Hebrews 10:26 if we sin willfully there no LONGER REMAIN ANY SACRAFICE OF SINS! Christ died once and for all, He dosent need to die again for us to be pardon again. Thats why Hebrews 6 says it is impossible to renew after falling away. If we can loose our salvation, then we can’t get it back. In 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 If our works are burned, we will suffer a great loss, yet still be saved!!!!! Remember it is God who saved us and sustains us. Godbless!
Mr John, accepting the gospel of grace is accepting JESUS in totality and this brings about an effortless transformation. U can’t have Jesus in you and continue to sin. It’s impossible. U walk in the spirit in Christ n that spirit in u will make you forgive because it teaches you what to do. Even just by remembering the loving kindness of Jesus, u effortlessly forgive. U don’t know how it happens but it happens anyway. Trying on your own will produce a work of the flesh in which u forgive but deep down, u still hold a grudge but the fruit of the spirit enables you to forgive in totality.
Continue to let the truth be known. Excellent article. God bless!
We are not forgiven for all sins, past, present and future after we believe in Christ? Really? Wow. That’s gospel 101, isn’t it?
Andrew , yes that is the Gospel, the good news. Too good to be true , isn’t it? Indeed, because it is true. We are forgiven by the blood of Jesus, and not by our own deed. The blood of Jesus is not the blood of bull and goats like in the Old Covenant (for sins offerings), if the blood of animals sacrifice can cover the sins of those children of Israel for one year, then how come the blood of Jesus can only cover your sins until your next sin? (that could be just within one day?) No my friend, that is insulting the blood of Jesus, make Him less superior to the blood of animals sacrifice.
Don’t worry about sins, focus on Jesus, and everything will be alright.
Amen Amen Amen John M Lu. People are terrified to let go and let God, I trust God for righteousness over my own anyway. I have been set free from sin by grace after nearly exhausting myself over the law nearly to the point that I sought Freemasonry in hopes of getting help obeying the law better. The law will break you, it will wear you out to the point you want to quit and many have and swore never to return to Christ. If you want a great ministry go and share grace with people who dropped out of church because they “didn’t like all the rules.” That is an awesome ministry opportunity. Lets face it the law is a killer and without redemption very dangerous.
I think what this sincere author is meaning is that if/once you have accepted Christ as Savior and Lord, your sins are forgiven, but you must still deal with the CONSEQUENCES of your sins while here on earth, must still repent for them, make restitution, etc. You must still repent..to live unrepentantly…how would you even knew you belonged to Christ if you weren’t willing to repent? It doesn’t make sense. I take this to be what the author is meaning.
I like your point,
Hey John I think you need to read the bible and rightly diving the truth we are not living under law but grace and there is no such thing false grace and true grace , grace is grace and grace is Christ thank you
There are actually several unbiblical teachings about grace. People have twisted its meaning.
You twist its meaning John.
John Burton, You are actually saying Jesus’ sacrifice & finished work is not good enough? Jesus did not do a FINISHED WORK? Jesus died in vain bcoz you still need to complete His work? you are saying salvation = Jesus + you ? You have forgotten the value of that one person (Jesus) the loveliness of Jesus and the perfection of His FINISHED WORK.
John Burton, don’t worry about right living, bcoz when you believe right, that All your sins have been forgiven, then you will automatically and effortlessly bear good fruits. Because Jesus Himself said: you will love Him much, if you know you have been forgiven much; but currently you believe you were only forgiven a little thus you will also love Him a little.
The work of Jesus is finished, that’s true. He created a path for us all, everyone, so we can get into heaven. Since before that we were all condemned. But that’s it, it’s finished! No, wait! We have to receive this by asking him into our hearts. To me, it is just as ignorant as saying that Jesus died for everyone’s sins, the end, it’s finished. No! Not the end, we have to accept it and ask him into our hearts to be saved. Now it’s finished. But yet it was finished when he said “it’s finished”? So everyone isn’t automatically forgiven? Then it’s really not what he meant when he said that! His job was done! Not ours! We can’t just go about our life. We have to do our part by asking and admit when we are wrong in order for it to be given. When you put your money in a bank, it doesn’t make it any less of your money. Can you just say hey it’s mine and poof it’s in your hand? No you have to request the amount you need given to you when you owe bills. The bank doesn’t pay your bills for you just bc you worked for the money to pay them. Jesus is the bank of forgiveness. When we need it he gives it because he said it is ours. If we ask we will receive. If we don’t ask then it isn’t given. We have to ask to receive it as its needed. If we don’t have to ask then there is no point in asking for anything. All we would have to do is want something and it would happen. But no we have to pray and ask, regardless if he knows in our heart what we want, or not. It’s ridiculousness to assume your job is done! See what I mean? “But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!”
II Corinthians11:3-4
Please show me where it says that we no longer need to confess when we are wrong and ask for his forgiveness. What you all are believing is not biblical and you need to rebuke this deception then repent!!! “Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’”
Matthew 7:22-23 Lawless? No law? It’s evil deception! Good luck and God bless!!
Hyper Grace preachers preach the Truth (Jesus) about Grace (Jesus) – John 1:17.You’re actually the one who twist it’s meaning John.
The Gospel is not about Jesus + something.It’s about Jesus + nothing.
So, I can refuse to forgive someone and still be forgiven? I can continue in sin and still be saved?
Read this, Romans 6:14 – For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace.
The fruit of a life saved by grace is good works!
So, you are saying that I can sin freely and it has no impact on my life? No dominion? Just state it plainly.
John, if you are aware that you are loved and that you’re just merely conscious about His love.Do you think that you’re still gonna think of doing wrong things?
Of course you are. The Bible tells us that we will experience temptation. His own disciples betrayed him.
So what can you say about this? 1 John 1 2:15 – 15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love of the Father[a] is not in them.
The context says that if a christian fails and committed sin,he just don’t have the revelation that God loves him.It doesn’t say there that if you sinned you don’t have the love for the Father,but rather,you don’t have the revelation of His amazing and unconditional love for you!
If we love him, we will obey him.
I think this is much better – If you know that you are loved by Him,you will also obey Him.
Even better… pure Scripture: John 14:15 “If you love me, keep my commands.”
Hahaha.I agree, but do you know that John is not referring to the 10 commandments?
Check this out as Paul revealed the meaning of obedience.
Romans 1:5 and 16:26
. . . through whom we have received grace and apostleship for OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations for His name.
. . . and by the prophetic Scriptures [the mystery] has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH.
And do you know on what faith Paul is referring to? that’s the Finished work of Christ!
The finished work of Christ! Yes! However, our work is not finished! Do not be deceived! We are all sinners! We must confess this truth!
So if you’re a sinner, then you cannot enter heaven when you die? As far as i know I am the righteousness of God in Christ not a sinner.So you’re saying that the work of the first Adam was more powerful than the second Adam?
John Burton, God bless you more. I carefully read the comments of others. I really wonder if these folks read with open heart what you are alarming.
Sad, it seems they are completely blinded by their own denomination’s theology even when dealing with the holy Scripture, the very breathe of God Himself!
Why is it so hard for people to see God’s whole counsel? Man’s theology, man’s opinion, rejecting the whole truth!
Reading your article, you have been simply quoting the very words and teaching of the Lord Jesus Himself and His true sent ones, and yet these guys segregated it into “grace” and “law” or teaching grace plus law!
All the clear teaching of the Lord you quoted above (Matt.7:21; John 14:15; 15:10,14), the teachings of His true sent ones like Paul, James where you quoted above are gracious teaching. They are teaching of grace.
You cannot falsely accuse a person as teaching a mixture of grace and law , because that person emphasised equally both sides of the truth.
As any legal coin have two equal sides, the truth (God’s truth) has two equal sides. God’s truth has objective side and subjective side.
Everything God has done beginning from the foundation of the world until the cross are finished historical facts and are objective truths. Truths which acomplished and finished outside of us. “It is finished,” declared our Saviour!
Well, we were not practically and historically there, however, it is unshakable historical fact that the Lord died and accomplished everything for us! The word “for” is key. Yes, for us! However, this is only an objective truth! And objective truth is always outside of us and will remain forever like that unless it becomes subjective truth in each and e eryone of us.
And it is right here where the responsiblity of man comes. Well, unless someone wants to argue blindly, the Bible is so clear that God did not create man as robot.
What does it speak that man is not a robot? It speaks that man has clear role, a part to play and responsibility.
Without going so long, in Genesis 2:17 , The Lord gave a clear command to the first Adam. And the NT clearly tells us that Adam was fully accountable before God for violating and disobeying God’s command. Why was Adam accoutable before God if he was not responisbile?
Or does our friends think that God’s command in Genesis 2:17 was void of grace, a command with no grace supplied? The Bible never so anyway!
In fact when Paul talked about the Genesis acount in 1 Timothy 2:9-15, he never said Eve sinned because there was no enough grace given by God. What the apostle said is she was deceived and he believed the potential of the existence of the same deception among the graced NT churches. That is why he gave the clear command in that passage and other passages of his epistles.
This makes clear that man has a great responsiblity to play: either to coporate with God and walk in obedience or disobey God.
Again saying that those once truely saved will always remain true to God and His ways is a great insult to the entire Bible. The primay reason and purpose why almost all the books of the Bible are written are because there were clear spiritual distortions and problems that God’s people have fallen into. There is no a book in the Bible which are written and addressed to unbelievers. All are written to teach, rebuke, correct and train believers. Why the need for that if the so-called hyper grace is enough!?
Just To mention one: Paul deals with about eleven kinds of different problems in his 1st epistle to Corinth, which were corrupting and destroying the church of God in that city. These problems and distortions were embraced by the believers who were saved by grace.
God had to rebuke His children exposing all the falsehood among them, gave them a clear instruction and when you come to about the end of that epistle, in 1st Cor.14:37, Paul declares “If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him accknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored”
When Paul say “I am writing to you,”here, this includes every command in the entire Epistle!
Will then these friends (those who are commenting here) will accuse Paul for mixing grace with Law? I leave this to their conscience.
The truth is: for the obejective truth to be yes and amen in our life, meaning for the objective truth to be subjective truth, we must obey the faith, we must submit to God’s way, we must live a submissive life to the Holy Spirit. True and whole salvation is when everything the Lord Jesus accomplished FOR US (all the objective truth) become subjective truth IN US through the holy Spirit. And Acts 5:32 clearly tells us that the Holy Spirit is given only to those who obey the Lord!
Eph.4:30 clearly warns the believers about grieving the holy Spirit. How? Well, read carefully Eph.4:17-5:20! You will clearly see all the works of the flesh, worldly and satanic things which could be done by believers and these grieves the Holy Spirit horribly!
Again, though it is teaching the objective truth (the acomplished facts) that must come first, teaching the subjective truth is absolutely inseparable from it!
If one carefully reads all the epistles, you have both the indicative truth and the imperative (command)truth inseparably! For that is what the whole truth is! Whenever one fails in one of these, that person receives the strongest rebuke from the Lord and is expected to repent and turn 180 degree.
And sometimes may receive strong disciple from the Lord! Many from among the saints in Corinth (many from among those who were saved by hyper grace) were weak, sick and a number of them were fallen asleep (died physically and before their time). Why? Because the Lord disciplined them!
1Corinth 11:32!
JOhn burton, don’t focus on your love for Jesus, but His love for you, that will make you love Him more and without realizing it. You have no source of love, you are a bankrupt man, you cannot obey Him with your love until you receive His Love and Grace first. Grace comes first, Law obedience will follow up later
John Burton, it is you who worry about sins, People like us never worry about sins and yet we do not want to sin. Even the Apostle Paul never worried people will go on sinning when they walk under the Grace of God. In fact, Paul is saying sins will lose its dominion , its power over people under grace.
When you teach mixture law and grace, then you are actually giving power to sin. Look at this verse:
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
You only like to preach the wages of sin is death, yes but that is only part of the verse, read the next verse, it is the Law that gives rise to the strength of sinning. People will sin more and more behind the door and inwardly, and you do not know their private lives, all because you have been preaching the mixture of Grace and Law, resulting in giving them power to sin some more.
You are so right John. They’ve been cleverly taught that because of the gift of grace they have “License to sin”.
John,
To respond to your question, when you are under grace, the nature of sin is not in you. For being righteous is not something you work for but righteousness becomes your nature. So if you are under grace the nature of forgiving is in you and you dont have unforgiving soul.
If you are under grace you can’t continue in sin, because sin in this content
is breaking the law (missing the mark) and those who are under the finished
work of Jesus (the new covenant) do not measure their righteousness by what they do or which laws they follow because sin does not have dominion over them.
So you’re not a sinner then? “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
I John 1:8-9 The truth is that, no matter how hard we try to become Christ like, we will never be perfect as Christ was! If you are not disciplined then you can not be a true disciple!
Felicity. You’re giving me verses that you cannot even explain in Context.I guess you better ask your Pastor How to rightly divide the Word of Truth 🙂
Jesus + nothing???? So it’s not about Jesus + us??? It’s not about him dying for our sins??? So then what you are saying is that Jesus died in vain? I rebuke you in the name of Jesus!!! It is Jesus + us!!! We have to do our part now!! Use our free will to accept this and repent!! You are deceived! Do not be the lazy person with his hand in his bowel! Or the dog who returns to his vomit! Oh wait but you say you don’t have bowel or vomit. So then you are perfect with no sin, completely pure???? I think not! I rebuke you in the name of Jesus! You are deceived just as Eve was! “But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!”
II Corinthians11:3-4
Don’t put up with this nonsense!! He loves you! “Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’”
Matthew 7:22-23 Lawless? No law? It’s evil deception! Good luck and God bless!
You’re giving me verses that you cannot even explain in Context.I guess you better ask your Pastor How to rightly divide the Word of Truth 🙂
Romans 6:14 – For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace.
Nothing can be more clear than this verse, If you are under grace sin will lose its power on you, and I do not understand your reasoning or your fear of people sinning under grace? how can people under grace sin? only people under law or mixture will normally sin inwardly and behind doors. This verse is clearly said so.
I am so confused. Those that believe in this grace teaching, are oftentimes the ones that lack grace to those who don’t agree with them. The sad part, is they don’t even validate their comments with a scripture. They just defend the preachers that preach on it. I have seen how this modern grace teachings have cause a lot of disastrous effects on relationship, and even churches. They so arrogantly left their churches and even sever their ties with good relationship, because they felt they know far better on grace that those who don’t. It is so sad, how this become so divisive. And when you challenge them on what they believe on, they throw a fit and cannot even back it up with scriptures.
John Burton is disseminating a false teaching about the gospel of grace Christ gave Paul. Mark him as a false teacher.
Jesus stated that He did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. He still remains the same yesterday, today and forever. The difference of the OT and the NT is that we now have forgiveness of sins and the grace or power from on high to be able to walk in the Spirit. I have seen how this false grace message has destroyed lives and people’s faith. If any message is from God, it will produce true life and joy and it surely wont cause you to veer off the narrow road! I agree with John Burton’ message. We have to preach the true grace message because more than half the church has fallen for a message that makes them revel in the very sins that Jesus died for. Go and read 1 John, the whole book. It is totally opposing the false grace message.
If you’re trying to say that Hyper Grace Message has destroyed lives and people’s faith.How come Paul preached it?
I would like you to read one of the testimonies from the book of Paul Ellis (Hyper Grace Gospel)
Hope you’ll be enlightened somehow 🙂
Grace to You brother!
I recommend that every grace preacher and believers must read the book.
In Jesus you’re forgiven, sanctified, made holy and made eternally righteousness, yet Dr. Brown says Jesus isn’t enough. Now he wouldn’t come right out and say such a thing but Dr. Ellis pinpoints with laser sharp accuracy where Dr. Brown still depends on human effort to complete the work Jesus began. Paul Ellis’ response to Dr. Brown is one of respect and brotherly love. It’s refreshing to see mature communication on such a hotly debated issue. Paul’s explanation of grace and sanctification brings a degree of clarity often missed in Christianity today. To quote Dr. Ellis, “The hyper-grace gospel is easy to recognize for it is nothing more than boasting about Jesus.”
— CLINT BYARS
I suggest, that you do what I did when being confronted with
this issue, for several months I studied the scriptures to determine what the
scriptures actually said, by that I mean not a handful of scriptures from the
teacher that says what I wanted to hear. But let the Bible speak to you, NOT for you. In doing so, I found a multitude of scriptures that did not agree with much of the modern grace message.
Your first Point is “If you’re trying to say that Hyper
Grace Message has destroyed lives and people’s faith. How come Paul preached
it?”
What Gospel did Paul preach? Please consider Paul’s
teaching.
“Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God:
on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, IF YOU CONTINUE in His
goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.” Rom 11:22
The point is Christ has done his work which is perfect, but there is a side to salvation were we have got to do something, Not to add to what He did, But a response to what He has done. The Bible actually say that we need to do something NOTE “IF YOU CONTINUE”. As I have said before there are multitudes of scriptures that confirm this by the mouth of Paul and Jesus
Your second point is “In Jesus you’re forgiven, sanctified, made holy and made eternally
righteousness,”
“Eternally righteous”, this point is were False Grace Preachers miss it completely, let’s look at the scriptures. Obviously we are made righteous in Christ, but do we have to do something to maintain this righteousness/salvation, or can you lose it.?
Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, IF YOU HOLD FIRMLY TO THE WORD I PREACHED TO YOU. OTHERWISE, YOU HAVE BELIEVED IN VAIN. 1 Co 15:1-2
See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none
of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. WE HAVE COME TO SHARE IN CHRIST, IF INDEED WE HOLD OUR ORIGINAL CONVICTION FIRMLY TO THE VERY END. Heb 3:12-14
But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—IF YOU CONTINUE IN YOUR FAITH, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the Gospel. This is the gospel
that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant. Col 1:22-23
This is obviously talking to Christians, but my point is, if you believe in unconditional eternal security, by your statement “Eternally righteous”, then scripture is clearly against that
position. Do I believe in eternal security yes. But you must think about what these verse are actually saying. We have apart to play in this.
Your Point “Dr. Brown still depends on human effort to complete the work Jesus began”
Human effort does not complete Jesus’ work, BUT is a scriptural response to Christ work. Just a few examples
Heb 12:14 MAKE EVERY EFFORT to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; WITHOUT HOLINESS NO ONE WILL SEE THE LORD.
Heb 12:15 SEE TO IT THAT NO ONE FALLS SHORT of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.
Pe 1:10 Therefore, my brothers, BE ALL THE MORE EAGER TO MAKE YOUR CALLING AND ELECTION SURE. For if you do these things, YOU WILL NEVER FALL,
2 Pe 3:14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, MAKE EVERY EFFORT to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.
Heb 4:11 Let us, therefore, MAKE EVERY EFFORT TO ENTER THAT REST, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
Dr Brown’s position is supported by scripture please spend more time mediating on what the Bible actually says. The question is, can a certain preachers point on a topic be supported by the majority of scriptures on the subject, or are they cherry picking. Establish your position on an issue, by referring to as many scriptures as possible, it can be interesting when you find much much more scripture that disproves a popular teachers position, than scripture that prove it. I have come to the conclusion that we are living in a day declared in the Bible.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will
turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 2Ti 4:3-4
I recommend this writer continue his bible study, but do so more correctly. He can come to the opposite conclusion by doing so. Example: In Romans 11:22 Paul is making a dispensational point, i.e., that the GENTILES were blessed by the grace gospel that began to be preached when Israel rejected Jesus Christ. Individual believers are not in the context here. When the rapture of believers occurs, the Gentile world that has not believed will be CUT OFF from the grace gospel as God begins again to deal in judgment with Israel and Christ returns to reign in Jerusalem. That is just one example of the writer’s incorrect interpretations of scripture. In I Cor. 15 Paul is teaching against those who don’t believe the resurrection, and says they have “believed in vain” if they rejected that part of his gospel. (That is my personal take on that one.)
You are half right here, we need to study the Bible and place more emphasis on the Bible than the doctrines of man, let the scriptures interpret scriptures. An example of this the Berean Christians, as quoted below they received the Word, but then checked it out to make sure that it was correct. This is not what I lot of Christians are NOTdoing today, they only check out the scriptures that their favorite teachers use. Can I point out that you don’t even quote scripture in your argument.
Act 17:11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
I will respond in greater detail as time allows, but your argument is NOT based on scripture but doctrine. You missed the point completely with 1 Co 15:1-2 the word Believed is the same word used in Jn 3:16. Who preached the gospel to them, Paul, they then obviously received the gospel, believed the gospel, and took there stand on the gospel. The point is there can be no question that they were believers. The same point is clearly illustrated in Heb 3:12-14 and Col 1:22-23. The problem today is that if the scripture does not agree with a doctrine, the teachers of that doctrine will play theological gymnastics, to make it work. Thank you for your comments, I recommend that you continue your bible study, so that you can use it to prove your points.
Thank you for your comment. I didn’t use many scripture quotes in that comment since the verse had already been identified. I could have done so. It is true that I need to do much more study, as most do. I do maintain that my exegesis of Rom. 11:22, and the whole context is correct. Some incorrectly use this passage to try and prove salvation , once received can then be lost— a false premise. It is the whole of Paul’s gospel doctrine that must be considered.
I Gerald, thank you for your comments, we all need to be study the Bible more, which we are both doing. I will respond in more detail to Rom 11:22, it is a busy time of the year. I quick story to illustrate my position, my wife told me to read a great book, while reading it I noted what I thought were some major faults in his teaching, it promoted me to spend 3 months of my life mainly finding every scripture in the NT, that related to salvation, grace, sin, works, the warnings in the NT etc. I decided to start with a clean slate, asking the question what does the Bible actually say, not my favorite teacher. I categorized scriptures into subjects, approx 100 pages of scriptures, in other words thousands of scriptures. The purpose, prove or disprove subjects like OSAS. The results surprised me, and since that time I have found many teachers that have come to the same conclusion. The results were that the number of scriptures that disprove OSAS, vastly out numbered the scriptures that seem to prove it. The bottom line is, does the Bible teach unconditional eternal security or a conditional eternal security based on our ongoing response to Christ’s Perfect Work on the cross. I have found vastly more scripture that describe something that we need to do, NOT to obtain salvation (that is purely of grace and our faith), but some thing that we need do to maintain salvation, obviously with God’s grace helping us all the way. Which is what 1 Co 15:1-2, Heb 3:12-14 and Col 1:22-23 are clearly saying if we are willing to let the scriptures speak to us. More soon but maybe after Christmas. Have a great CHRISTmas.
Sorry to be so slow in getting back to you. This a response to you comments on Rom 11:22 from the founder of the Bible College that I study with, my thoughts were rather similar.
“The “dispensational” argument seems rather tortured to me. It certainly is not the way any ordinary reader of Romans would understand the verse, which simply expresses what Paul says elsewhere, not only in Romans, but in all his letters, namely, that a true Christian will strive for an appropriate lifestyle. If people to set themselves to add to their faith “patient continuance in well-doing” (Ro 2:7), then
eternal life will assuredly be theirs, otherwise judgment will fall on them.
Notice also, that the context in 2:7 (that is, vs. 1-11) shows that Paul is
primarily addressing individuals, not the collective nation or the church. I
think the same is mostly true of the closely similar 11:22, while allowing that
there is a corporate aspect in the context.
I do not mean (nor did Paul) that good works must be added to faith in order for a person to be saved, for that would contradict the main thrust of Romans (cp. 4:6; 11:6). We are absolutely saved by faith, and by faith alone, apart from any work of ours. But scripture does show, in many places (including the passage you cite below), that if faith fails to issue in a life of increasing godliness then its reality
must be doubted. Those who believe show that they believe by reflecting and
growing into the beauty and righteousness of Christ.
That does not mean that every action must be perfect, or that committing a sin will automatically wreck a person’s salvation. A quality, a direction, an identity, a purpose is what scripture is talking about, not single acts here and there. Hence, in the passage mentioned above (2:7), Paul uses the singular “work” or “well-doing”, rather than the plural “works”. He means that a true Christian will have a set purpose (despite occasional failures) of continuing to outwork the gospel in daily life, of striving for godly behaviour, of seeking out and doing the will of God, and of pressing on toward the prize of our high calling in Christ.
The folly of many over the centuries has been to focus on works to the exclusion of faith, or to focus on faith to the exclusion of works. Both are essential. We must begin with faith, and faith alone; but then, if that faith is real, it will show
itself in a godly character, and will cause the believer to wish to persevere
until the goal is reached and the prize is won.
I hope this helps.
In the joy and grace
of Christ,
Ken Chant
K. D. Chant (MRE,
PhD, OAM)
Thanks for taking time to reply. It strikes me that in part, we don’t disagree; but, in part we do.
There is a difference [crucial] between assent to a statement e.g. “Christ died for our sins” (I Cor. 15:3) or recitation of a creed that includes “Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world” or some such. When one believes unto eternal life as those Paul preached his gospel to did, they placed all their trust in what Christ had done for them , and had to know what it was they believed*, and Paul taught that when they did so, the Holy Spirit sealed them into the Body of ChristEph. 1:13) thus identifying them with Christ in a manner that was final and for all time and eternity. (Read Paul’s reiteration of the process: Gal. 2:20)
All the “cherry picked verses” used to make the gospel into something it isn’t have to be made subject to the whole of Paul’s exact revelation from Christ. The following is just my own and not necessarily from the Word: Let’s look at motive for the 2 sides in this debate. I don’t charge everyone with this perverted motive but I do in the case of those who want to deny the once and for all finished cross work of Christ in favor of religious tyranny [spying out the liberty ] over/of believers and bringing them into bondage. For the other side, I see no motive but the advancement of the gospel of grace revealed only to the apostle of the Gentiles, Paul.
*In I Cor. 15 Paul is correcting those who denied that part of Paul’s gospel that proclaimed Christ’s resurrecton.
Thanks for your response.
Firstly with you comment “assent to a statement”, if you don’t believe unto eternal life you are not saved, full stop. I personally had a powerful born again experience in 1979, I changed from the inside out, my inner nature, desires etc. changed. I believe in Christ’s Perfect work on the cross.
The problem that I have is that OSAS (once saved always saved) is based on the
idea, to put it in a nutshell, that our eternal security is unconditional, or
once we are saved there is nothing we can do to lose it. The problem with this
idea, if you go back to the NT without a doctrinal bias and create, as I have
exhaustive lists of all the scriptures that support OSAS and all the scriptures
that refute OSAS, (using a natural reading and not bias reading) you discover
that there are multitudes of scriptures that clearly refute OSAS.
And I challenge anyone to do the same, the conclusion that you will reach may
surprise you. I other words the NT clearly teaches that we must do certain
things to maintain our eternal security, NOT to receive it. To believe in OSAS you must ignore the words of Jesus and only selectively use the words of Paul. We relegate the words of Jesus as the law, even though the NT says John 1:17 “For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.” Just a few examples, Jesus clearly taught that if we don’t remain in Him we will be cast into the fires of hell John 15:6, that some would believe for a while then fall away, NOTE the word “believe” Luke 15:13, That sin can take you to Hell Mar 8:13, that we must deny ourselves take up our cross and follow Mar 8:34, (note only the true sheep follow John 10:27) that if we do not forgive God does not forgive us Mark 11:25, also Matt 6:14-15. These are just a few references, but the point is we have to do
something.
Also Paul there are many different studies that refute OSAS, I will list just a few.
There are plenty of references in the NT that use the conditional clause “if”
when relating to salvation. Paul repeated the same concept as Jesus in the
scriptures below that help to reveal (The whole of Paul’s exact revelation from Christ) Note the If’s.
1 Cor 15:1-2 Who preached? The Apostle Paul. Was there anything wrong with that
Gospel? Obviously Not. Did they receive it? Yes. Did they act on the message? Yes. Were they
saved? Yes according to Paul. Did Paul expect them to preserve in faith to be
saved? Obviously yes. The issue presumably was that they were wavering in their
faith regarding the resurrection of Christ and this was obviously going to
affect their salvation. This idea of
repeated by Paul Col 1:23 (meaning is obvious), Rom 8:13, (add to Gal 6:8-9
Note how destruction is the opposite of eternal life NIV) Rom 11:21,23, 1 Cor 10:12, (Christians can fall) 1 Cor 11:32, (Christians can be condemned with the world) 1 Tim 2:15, 1 Tim 4:16.
Also the writer of Hebrews, Heb 2:2-3, 3:6-7, 6:4-6, 10:26-27, 10:38-39, 12:25-29.
Also the other writers of the NT 2 Peter 1:8-10, 2 Peter 2:20-21, 1 John 1:7, (
what happens if we don’t walk in the light) 1 John 1:10, 1 John 2:24. James
5:19 The same idea is supported by Jesus in John 15:6, Matt 16:24, Mar 8:34,
Mark 8:38, Mark 9:50, Luke 16:11, John 8:51, John 14:23, John 5:5 John 15:10,
Rev 2:5, 3:3, 3:20.
Granted everything that we do as a Christian is because of his grace working in us, but God also gives us a free will, just like He gave Adam in the garden, we choose,
we wear the consequences, if we repent all is fine 1 John 1:8-9, IF we don’t we
are unrighteous.
The point of this and many others studies is that OSAS or unconditional eternal
security does not hold water, it is like a sieve. I would like to note that I
don’t deny the finished cross work of Christ, Christ work was perfect and
complete but it is our perception of that work, false teachers say that because
of His finished work we don’t need to do anything. Where as in scripture says
the opposite. Others studies are salvation and our obedience (Matt 7:21)
meaning is obvious, we must hold on John 8:31, We must make every effort Luke
13:24, We must keep ourselves John 12:25, We must continue in the faith Heb
10:38-39, We must endure Heb 10:23-29, meaning obvious. All these studies have
multiple scriptural references.
Even in the Bible where Jesus makes promises like “no one will snatch them out of my hand” in John 10:27-29, the condition is that it is for the sheep, that listen
to His voice; that know Him, and they follows Him. Even in John 3:16 the word
believes is a PRESENT PARTICIPLE, expessed in the Amp Version
John 3:16 For God so greatly loved and
dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten ([a]unique)
Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall
not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life. This means continuously believing.
With you reference to “sealed into the body”, that thought
occurs in 2 Cor 1:22, 2 Cor 5:5 and Eph 1:14, literal translations of the Bible
do no use the word guarantee like Youngs and the NASB uses the work “pledge”.
The bottom line I have found through spending hundreds of hours
on this very subject, is that if you believe in unconditional eternal security,
you will have to change the meaning of many scriptures to maintain an argument,
if you believe in conditional eternal security the scriptures fall into place
without scriptural gymnastics to try and make them fit. Also it is only our relationship with Jesus and His Grace that allows us to do anything.
God Bless
I gave my best shot at guiding you into an appreciation of what the scriptures say; but, if you persist in your own “take” on them, there is nothing I can do about it. I do care about you as a person Christ died for, so I have to warn in this manner:
There is but one salvation, and if you reject it , as it is, you are truly lost and still in your sins. This, no matter how sincerely you believe you have studied the scripture. I ask you finally to examine Paul’s gospel and especially find out the meaning of “right division.” (II Tim. 2:15.)
I will not continue this discussion.
Hi Gerald
The speed of your response indicates that you have spent no time in an serious contemplation of the abundance of scriptures supplied, this also infers that you study books more than the Bible, your comment “I gave my best shot at guiding you into an appreciation of what the scriptures say” is ludicrous, considering the time that you did not spend in considering an argument supported by so many scriptures. You cannot rightly divide the scriptures if you don’t examine the scriptures in detail.
God Bless you
Grahame
And here i found my brethren in the faith arguing. Cmon guys!
Salvation is eternal. If Salvation depended on how holy we lived after we received Christ as our Lord and Saviour, than no one could go to heaven. Of course, and yes, after one gets saved they will want to live more righteous because of God’s love; but our deeds of righteousness don’t save us; but our deeds of righteousness are a reaction to God’s love toward us; which in the end will result in fulfilling the Law. Not right away, but progressively. Because the law is fulfilled by love. You can’t scare someone or educate someone into following the Law of Christ, which is Love. (Lordship salvationists theological teaching, not that they don’t believe, but they are teaching Grace and Love incorrectly, I believe.) If salvation depended on how holy we live after we got saved (again, not that you won’t want to live holy, but God changes hearts and wants to make them live holy.) than why did Christ die on the Cross for our sins? He could have just told us the message of his love for us, and leave it up to us to make it to heaven. Instead Christ died for our sins to save us from our sins, for the ones who believe on his name. Ever since the beginning the law and message was Love (1 John 3:11) Love has to be genuine in order to fulfill the law. And genuine Love comes from God and Christ, which he showed us most extensively on the cross. Abraham was saved by Faith, and he surely had deeds that were not righteous in Gods eyes (Disobeying God when he had a child of a Bondwoman, and not his wife, Freewoman), and this was after he knew God for who he was, Love; same with David, same with Paul, Peter, same with many great people of the bible, and same with us. Love should motivate to live holy, not in-obedient, but we all mess up and sin, because we’re sinners. And I would consider using the AKJV for your research, because you need God’s exact translated words, which many Bible versions don’t have. Remember the thing and message the devil wants to hide you from, which is Love, and Love transforms the heart, not fear, or and JUST an educated brain. The Gospel is for the broken in heart, the poor, the hurt, and the despised, the forgotten in the world. Even Jesus came here and lived a broken life for us; there were times he was starving, didn’t have a home to sleep in, not water, dying of thirst almost, was mocked and forgotten by people, he lived a broken life, because the message is for the broken. We’re all broken when it comes down to it, but the ones at the bottom of this world are especially broken and humbled and hurt and in pain. (Mexico, Haiti, Kenya, and much more.) What this people need is Love, and what God has given them, is Love, on the cross, in Christ. Because God, is Love. Amen.
By rightly dividing the word, we need to understand God as being a Trinity. God the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit. God the Father does not work separately from the Son and Holy Spirit and vice versa. Everything in His word involves the Trinity. We also need to remember that God is an unchanging God, He does not change (Malachi 3:6). When we say that we are not living under the law but under grace, and only apply salvation without works – it is pulling apart the word of God into bits and pieces and it then doesn’t become “the whole counsel of God”.
1) The old Testament was given to us “as an example” so that we may know what true grace is. The Tabernacle of Moses is a beautiful type and shadow of the walk a believer should follow. When we approach the Outer Court of the Tabernacle it relates to entering into a Relationship with God and likens to when Jesus died on the Cross, He died to justify us and to make us righteous, to put us into a right relationship with Him. This was the work of Jesus – Saving Grace.
2) When we approach the Holy Place it relates to Discipleship by God which is the Holy spirit’s work in us to enable us to “work out our salvation with fear and trembling”. In the Holy Place are the Lampstand, Table of Showbread, Altar of Incense. Its layout in the room typifies a cross so that “if anyone desires to come after Me, let Him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me” (Luke 9:23). It is the process of Sanctification (Discipleship ) the work of the Holy Spirit – Enabling Grace.
3) When we approach the Holy of Holies it relates to our Fellowhip with God. This required the Levitical priests to be holy in their conduct as much as it also requires us to strive after holiness without which no one shall see the Lord (Heb 12:14). It is the process of Glorification, our future experience in God – Future Grace.
What the Lord has established in the law of the Old Testament is for our example so that we may know the threefold steps: Jesus, Holy Spirit, Father / Justification, Sanctification, Glorification / Outer Court, Holy Place, Holy of Holies / The Way, The Truth, The Life. He is unchanging and Holy. If He required old covenant people to be Holy in their conduct, He is the same today. “For I am the Lord, I do not change” (Mal 3:6) and “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever” (Heb 13:8)
When we say that we don’t need to work after receiving salvation, because then that would be “legalism” – that is denying a part of the Trinity which is the Holy Spirit, everything in number 2 above. The Levitical Priests couldn’t jump from the Outer Court to the Holy of Holies without going through the Holy Place – likewise we today cannot take Grace for granted and jump from Justification to Glorification without Sanctification. That would not be the “whole counsel of God”. God is Holy and He requires our daily repentance “working out our salvation” in the Holy Place. Any of us who attempt to separate the works of the Trinity as a whole will be rejected. We cannot fool God, He is unchanging and Holy and we are to fear Him.
I agree with what you wrote, it is something that is revealed by the Holy Spirit.
Of course there are multiple types of grace being preached. Satan always mimics God yet twists it subtlety so that it is unrecognizable from truth. The bible uses the example of wheat and tares growing together. Tares look identical to wheat in early stages, you can’t tell them apart until they grow to full maturity. False people in the church seem like they aren’t and they act like they aren’t on the outside but they ultimately seek only what benefits themselves and do not have a servants heart. They think they are authentic even to the point of fooling themselves.
We are saved by Grace. This is a profession that we make from the core of our soul, the depths of our heart. It’s a response to truth, the truth of God and his son and the sacrifice of Jesus. That Grace, that power, is the power to be transformed by the Holy Spirit, the same spirit that was hovering over the waters of the deep during creation.
It is not something that we flippantly add to our lives as we continue to live for ourselves. From my own experience it is the greatest realization when God opens your eyes through the Holy Spirit to see the depth of his love and seeing what sin truly is through the Holy Spirit. When I saw that I realized my destitution but was in awe and shock that God would love me and think of me and do something for me (save me through Jesus).
The Holy Spirit transforms my life but it only changes me where I loosen and let go of the areas of my life that I have a tightened grasp on. This is dying to yourself. This is the potter (God) molding the clay (me). Letting go of all the world tells you that you need in the flesh and letting the Holy Spirit reside, abide in Jesus instead (listening to what the Holy Spirit tells you to do). No duh I will have a constant struggle with temptation to sin, I live on a fallen earth. No duh, I will be complete and free of temptation and sin in heaven. But if God is first in my life his power is manifest when I am tempted to sin and the Holy Spirit counsels me in that moment and I use my free will to choose the Holy Spirits leading instead of my own selfish desires or inclinations. Over time, I overcome that inclination and it no longer is a temptation. But it was relying on God that enabled me to overcome. That is the process of sanctification and will change you into something you could never be out of your own strength. He goes above and beyond anything we can think of.
People cannot overcome in their own strength. Those who believe in false grace are those who have tried to do good by their own power and failed in their own human fallen state. Rather than pray and cry out to God (while submitting your heart and soul to God and praying for the counsel of the Holy Spirit) they listen to what other humans say and/or make the gospel revolve around what makes sense to them physically(earthly) rather than spiritually(heavenly)(It’s the easier path to take and to comprehend). When they try to do good things in their own strength (usually good in their own thinking too) they will always fail. We must rely on God’s strength, God’s power in all we encounter. The good God places in our hearts to do is his works through us and usually is something that doesn’t make much sense but when you submit to God (obey) he does miraculous things. This is part of running the good race and fighting the good fight. It is really difficult, sometimes exhausting. But it is worth it because God’s love, his character is made manifest in us when we obey him.
If you think you can add God to your life by saying some magic words and continue to sin (satan twists the fact of our imperfect state until glorification into something that defeats us from letting us be a conduit of God’s works), you are mistaken and the truth is not in you. Your heart has to be opened and only one who can open it is only God.
Any good works done on earth by a true follower of Christ is really God’s works as he is working through his people. My works do not save me and do not matter but God created me for his good works. Should I refuse to do them by using his son’s sacrifice as an excuse not to?
Clearly, this is the “gospel of free grace” not the Gospel of Good Works Jesus preached. Until you focus on the Master and not other men, Christendom is doomed to “cheap grace” and “free grace” which are both anti-Jesus.
1 John 1:5-10 “This is the message we have heard from
Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at
all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness,
we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself
is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus
His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are
deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is
faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all
unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His
word is not in us”.
The Bible says We Must Be Born Again in Order to Enter the Kingdom Of God
John 3:3, John1:12, Titus3:5 By faith in Christ Through Grace Alone Apart From
Works Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5 Romans 10:9.
When We come to Christ, We are born again, and we become a New Creation 2
Corinthians 5:17. By becoming a new creation, We were created for good works
Ephesians 2:10.
By receiving the gospel the bible says we have been sealed by the Holy
Spirit as a guarantee- Ephesians 1:14 “In him you also, when you
heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him,
were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is the guarantee of our
inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his
glory.” And 2 Corinthians 1:21-22 “And it is God who establishes us
with you in Christ, and has anointed us, 22and who has also put his seal on us
and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.”
The Evidence of a true Christian is that they Continue in the faith, because
what God Starts He finishes Philippians 1:6 “And I am sure of this, that
he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus
Christ.” And they will bear fruit in their lives Galatians 5:22-25 Matthew
13:23.
Matthew 13:18-23 “Hear then the parable of the sower: When anyone
hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes
and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along
the path. As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the
word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but
endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of
the word, immediately he falls away. As for what was sown among thorns, this is
the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of
riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. As for what was sown on good
soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears
fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another
thirty.”
1 John 2:18-19 “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if
they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that
it might become plain that they all are not of us.”
A person who claims to be a christian but continues in the state of carnality
and bear no fruits, and departs from their faith, they were never saved. they
can appear like us, showing to church service, prayer meetings, the altar call
of repentance in reading the sinners prayer, any good works, but if they depart
never return to the Lord they were never of us. Matthew 13 gives a clear
picture of this. We are not saved by works, but by the complete work of the
Christ on the cross, a true believer will struggle with Sin, the battle between
the flesh and spirit. We are not perfect until the day of glory when we be with
Christ. The Bible says we were predestined, glorified, sanctified, all because
of Christ. The Law was given because of our transgressions Galatians 3:19. And
because of Christ we are declared righteousness for if we are saved by our
effort Christ died in vain according to Galatians 2:21
“I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the
law, then Christ died for no purpose.”
A true believer will continue in the faith. Can a christian fall from sin? Yes.
Can a christian struggle with sin ? Absolutely. But can a Christian continue in
the state of sin and feel no repentance, no growth and live the world without
any worries or fear of the Lord? NO. Because Sin has no power over us when we
came to Christ. We struggle, but we don’t practice sin. Like the apostle John
Stated 1 John 1:5-10 “This is the message we have heard from Him and
announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If
we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie
and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in
the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son
cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving
ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful
and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all
unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His
word is not in us”.
Non of us are perfect, if we sin at least one sin whether great or small James
2:10 “For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become
accountable for all of it.” Sin separates us from God.
For us to keep our salvation, is like we trusting in our works and not in
Christ. When is God who sustains us
Jude 24 “Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present
you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy.”
According to Ephesians 1:14 we are sealed by the Holy Spirit as a guarantee
thus we are always saved, and because of God’s Grace and Christ finished work
on The cross, we are now forgiven and by the power of the Holy Spirit of God,
we will be convicted, broken yet Joyful, growing in repentance, bearing good
fruit because we are now new creation 2 Corinthians 5:17 and it is a work of
God in us Philippians 1:6 because what God starts he finishes.
For us to loose our
salvation, we will have to Un-regenerated, Un- Sealed- And Un-created, going
back to our old self which is not biblical. Those who go back to their old self
and remains were never saved. And if we can loose our salvation then that means
God did not finish what He started and Jesus failed to keep His word of not
loosing none of Us – John 6:36-40
It is Jesus who keeps Us According to John 6:36-40 “But I said to
you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. 37All that the Father gives
me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38For I have
come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39And
this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he
has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40For this is the will of my
Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have
eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
Those who come to Christ, although we are sinners, we will not continue in
practicing sin, but obeying God commandments because We love Him because He
loved us first. We are called to build a relationship with God John17:3. God
said He will put His Laws in our hearts, and the Fear of Him in our hearts so
that we may never depart from Him Jeremiah 32:40 “I will make with them an
everlasting covenant, that I will not turn away from doing good to them. And I
will put the fear of me in their hearts, that they may not turn from me.”
God saves us, regenerates us, cleanse us, make us new. This new creation in us
is God’s work and therefore we will produce good works, carry our cross follow
Christ and fight the good fight of faith.
Jesus said No one will ever separate us from His and His Father’s hand ever
John 10:28-30,Romans 8:38-39.
The prodigal Son returns, and a good sheperd will leave His 99 sheeps
and go after the one who left astray, That signifies our falling and dicipline
by God to us who never leaves us. Let us be doers of the Word not hearers.
Faith come by hearing the Word.
In Hebrews 6:1-6 ESV the Word says :
Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and
go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works
and of faith toward God, and of instruction about washings, the laying on of
hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And this we will do
if God permits. For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been
enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy
Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the
age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance,
since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and
holding him up to contempt. )
** **Note after receiving the truth it is impossible to
(restore, renew)*** If we can lose our salvation then WE CANT GET IT BACK
ACCORDING TO THE VERSE “For it is impossible, in the case of those who have
once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in
the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers
of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance,
since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and
holding him up to contempt” If we can lose our salvation, then the Promise in Ephesians 1:13-14 falls and is
not reliable, and plus we can’t get it back, because Christ died once and for
all. Clearly the falling away has to mean something else, either we understood
it wrong? or God’s word is contradicting?, and I chose we understood wrong and
God is right in His word because The Word of God never contradicts. Falling away in this verse has to do with
fellowship.
Romans 10:9 tells us how to be saved. Confess Jesus is Lord
and believe God raised the Son from the grave in Repentance.
We have to remember we are not perfect until the rapture. We
are all sinners. A true Christian struggles with sin, which is a battle between
the flesh and the spirit. We have three enemies we fight against when we come
to Christ. The 3 enemies are, Satan, Ourselves (The Flesh) and The world. But
the Bible gives us wisdom and understanding on how to fight against the evil
one. We became a new creature after coming to Christ in repentance 2
Corinthians 5:17. Therefore The Law was written in our hearts, The Holy Spirit
Guides Us, Convicts Us, Comfort us, Teaches us, reminds us of God’s Word and
Commandments which are in His Word. We are to pray, read the word and
fellowship with other believers. We are not to be hearers only but doers of the
word. God has given us His word so we can Learn and understand His will for us.
We are to fight the good fight of faith, put on the armor, resist the evil one
and he shall flee from us, because He who is in Us is stronger than he who is
in the World. That’s how we can fight back against the 3 enemies we face
against. For in Christ all things I Can do in His strength, for if God is for
us who can stand against us? Christ gives us Security John 10:27-30 No one can
snatch us away from the Son nor The Father’s Hands. We are His sheep. No one
can’t never ever separate us from God’s love for us in Christ Jesus. Romans
8:38-39 When we “fall away” we have to confess our sins 1 John 1:9 says that
confession brings forgiveness and purification from all unrighteousness.
1
Corinthians 3 :12-15 “Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver,
precious stones, wood, hay, straw— each one’s work will become manifest, for
the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire
will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has
built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is
burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as
through fire.
If our works are burned according to 1 Corinthians 3:15 we still be saved!
(1 Corinthians 3:15 “If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a
reward. If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself
will be saved, but only as through fire.”)
There is evidence in our faith in Christ, but we are not Justified by our works but by
Christ.
John 6:28-29
“Then they said to him, “What must we
do, to be doing the works of God?” 29Jesus answered them, “This is the work of
God, that you believe in him whom He has sent.”
Belief in Christ in repentance trusting Jesus completed work on the cross for our sins and surrendering to Him as Lord and Savior, we will be saved! Your new Journey begins. Praise God!
Isaiah 53
Who has believed our message?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot,
And like a root out of parched ground;
He has no stately form or majesty
That we should look upon Him,
Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him.
He was despised and forsaken of men,
A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief;
And like one from whom men hide their face
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.
Surely our griefs He Himself bore,
And our sorrows He carried;
Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten of God, and afflicted.
But He was pierced through for our transgressions,
He was crushed for our iniquities;
The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him,
And by His scourging we are healed.
All of us like sheep have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way;
But the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all
To fall on Him.
He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He did not open His mouth;
Like a lamb that is led to slaughter,
And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers,
So He did not open His mouth.
By oppression and judgment He was taken away;
And as for His generation, who considered
That He was cut off out of the land of the living
For the transgression of my people, to whom the stroke was due?
His grave was assigned with wicked men,
Yet He was with a rich man in His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was there any deceit in His mouth.
But the Lord was pleased
To crush Him, putting Him to grief;
If He would render Himself as a guilt offering,
He will see His offspring,
He will prolong His days,
And the good pleasure of the Lord will prosper in His hand.
As a result of the anguish of His soul,
He will see it and be satisfied;
By His knowledge the Righteous One,
My Servant, will justify the many,
As He will bear their iniquities.
Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great,
And He will divide the booty with the strong;
Because He poured out Himself to death,
And was numbered with the transgressors;
Yet He Himself bore the sin of many,
And interceded for the transgressors.
might be the worst commentary on Ephesians 2:8-9 I have seen. Thank you – i have finally given up on working my way to heaven after reading your take on the above verse. If i go to hell i guess you are correct- im trusting in Jeuse shed blood and resurrection and nothing else I cor 15:3-5
The article uses the phrase “once saved rarely saved”.
1 Corinthians 1:8-9 says this: “He will also keep you firm to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, who has called you into fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.”
This was actually written to the most carnal church in the New Testament, and yet Paul asserts that it is God who will keep them “firm to the end”. It’s about God’s sustaining power in our salvation, and it is about His faithfulness. If it was true that “maintaining salvation” was a very rare event, then we’d have to call into question the effectiveness of God’s sustaining power as described in 1 Corinthians 1:8-9. We’d have to call in question what Paul said in this text. However, the reality is that this verse points us to a faithful God who will keep believers firm to the end. Of all the churches Paul could write this to, he writes it to the most messed-up group of believers in all his letters. Yet even so, his faith was in God’s sustaining power to keep them firm to the end. If it was all up to their self-effort, there would be no hope and it would be true to say “once saved rarely saved”. But 1 Corinthians 1:8-9 shows us this is not the case.
Thank you. I can finally return again to a Spirit of Fear which has to do with judgment. I never could see how Jesus could possibly have done enough, or have been enough, or that when He said, “It is finished!” that He had left so much for me yet to do. I once believed that God was faithful, but now I know that He will remain faithful only to the judging of all of us sinners. The church has always had “certain men from James,” and there have always been the “older brothers” which drive people from faith in Christ to a lack of faith in themselves. Grace teaches us to say ‘no’ to unGodliness. If you so wish to build upon another foundation, which is not Christ, but upon yourself–your own faithfulness–be my guest, but your life won’t much resemble overcoming but will resemble much more depressed and inward-looking failure and flagellation.
Here, let me fix your Scripture; “He who is forgiven much, loves much.” [And love begets obedience]. A struggling believer doesn’t need to eat and drink judgment, that was mixed and poured out full force on Jesus at the Cross. What you need is a believer who fully recognizes the depth of his/her forgiveness; that he/she would not be as the man who looked in a mirror and quickly forgot his/her appearance. Okay? Poor understanding of Grace on your part doesn’t make it heresy, it makes it confused “Eve-like” deception that you can, of your own efforts, make yourself like God. Love you, bro. Blessings!
The Lord continue to bless you and keep you, brother.
The problem with this theology is that is focuses solely on SIN. I’m other words Bro Burton., you are, what is commonly referred to by those under true grace, as “Sin Concious”. So what is happening is that you are so concerned about sin that you have lost focus on the Love of God! Please don’t tell me you are because as a loving parent, if my child stood before some outsiders and proclaimed me as his/or her father and in the next breath says: “But if I step out of line I will be severely beaten”, that in and of itself creates the Religous wedge between the unsaved and God. You forget that it is the “Goodness of God that leads to repentance” I have experienced being under law based organizations and its teachings for years. And I can tell you first hand that it has done little to help me in my relationship with God. And I know for a fact that I am truly wonderfully saved. But when the true Grace message finally came to my legalistic ears. I was delivered from Religous bondage and the sins I had issues with under the law were not an issue anymore. Because the love of God was my motivation. Not Judgment, that is, judgement for the unredeemed which you seem to want to heap upon Gods children. And one more thing. If you want to address sin. Then I challenge you to be specific as to what sins you are referring to. Now a word of caution here. Before you make a list be very sure you cover everyone of them because there are NO little or big sins. And when you’re done I can assure you that you just might realize why your crusade on sin is futile and that grace will be that much more important.!
Nonsense legalists are so afraid of losing power to the grace of Jesus Christ they are acting like the Roman Judaizers and saying its a license to sin or that we don’t believe the bible. Grace is what sets people free from sin, the law cannot do anything but show man is condemned. It really has no power since its been crucified on the cross, it has been completed and finished. Why is this so scary? Whats wrong with trusting Christ to be our only source of righteousness or good work? We are absolutely powerless without the grace of Jesus Christ. It is the grace of Jesus Christ that saves not the law. Keep preaching the law and you’ll be condemning man to the grave without hope of redemption, or you will break their backs with weight of the law and and they will give up on God.
I would like to thank everyone who comments to your article John. I became a Christian on May 10, 2002. I did an extensive 4th step in a 12 step program April 2001 (listing my sins). I believe the 4th step(the law) led me to Christ. I’ve done many 4 th steps since but seem to still feel condemned these past 15 years, while also going to church, feeling condemned. I’ve been made aware of the Grace message a few weeks ago. I have to tell you, it completely transformed my daily life. I was more loving and forgiving than I’ve ever been my entire life. My family asks me why I’m being so kind. My husband keeps asking me if I’m mad about things that used to annoy me about him and my answer is no. I’m effortlessly forgiving him and forgetting right away. It all seems too good to be true. So I searched on google this morning in this message board to make sure I wasn’t in error. Now I feel sad. My heart is to love God, but I think that if I don’t feel completely loved and accepted sin and all ( I don’t want to do,wrong but I do it all,the time), I can’t give love and acceptance. I’m going to put my faith in grace. It feels so much better. I am also afraid I’ll give myself license to sin now, but I can ask Holy Spirit to correct me.
“Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world,16 holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or laboured in vain.” – Apostle Paul, Philippians 2:12-16 NKJV
You must understand that the finished work of Christ is like a pencil-eraser. We write, when there’s an error, we use the eraser (we repent).
False Grace says “It doesn’t matter how often you sin, it has already been covered by the blood of Jesus”.
Countering Scripture:
Romans.6.15-16. NLT
Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law, does that mean we can go on sinning? Of course not! Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living.
True Grace says “When you sin, you have the blood of Jesus available to you for cleansing”.
Backing Scripture:
1 John.1.9.nkjv
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
THE WORD HAS THE FINAL SAY
“For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God, and if it begins first with us, what shall the end be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? And ‘If the righteous one is scarcely saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?'” (1 Pet. 4:17-18).
“For if we willfully continue to sin after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation, which will devour the adversaries” (Heb. 10:26-27)
“The time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to MYTHS” (2 Tim. 4:3,4).
A pastor/Bishop once pressured me to have sex with him. I said “NO WAY”… He said ” You do not understand the concept of grace like I do.. Don’t you know God sees your heart, not your actions? ” I had to FLEE. !!
my name is Peace Emmanuel, Mr John Burton, i really feel for you, Grace is not a topic, Grace is the person of Jesus Christ, he paid it all, Jesus did not die for the church, he died for the world, if you receive him as your lord and King, you have eternal life, eternal life is not in the future, eternal life is a person, his name is jesus. pls read 1jh chapt 5.
Jesus paid for the whole sin of the world, infact he became sin himself, roman 8, and God judged sin in his body, and God was satisfied with Jesus sacrifice.
Born again Christians do not live in sin, its impossible to be in grace and live in sin
when a christian sins, its different to when a sinner sins, a Christ might sin, but he is not a sinner, its all about nature. a Christ has the nature of God.
a christian does not really commit sin, he only makes mistakes. all his sin as paid for present , past and future, 1cor 6.17, he that is joint with christ is one spirit.
God has delt with sin, sin is no longer an issue with God, if sin is still an issue with God, then jesus death was in vain.
let me shock you, nobody goes to hell for his individual sin since the death and resurrection of jesus , peple only go to hel for rejecting jesus christ.
John may God help you to accept his grace 100%, i love you.
Pls i live in Nigeria, am a pastor, am looking to come over to any country and teach people about the grace of our lord jesus, for free , just invite me, and i will come and teach for free the unconditional love of God. am a pastor with the beloved new creation church Nigeria, owerri imo state, my number +2348139645703, [email protected]
I don’t believe in what is called Hyper Grace or Radical grace I believe grace is grace however for centuries we have taught a watered down grace mixing it with works if the law and always adding self into the mix
I for one never needed a licence to sin before and after my salvation almost 40 years ago.
When I first got saved we would preach in Pentecostal circles that if you stop smoking drinking swearing and dancing you must be saved how ridiculous is that and yet we preached it with vigour
I still don’t believe we should lower our standards and just start living a life in sin and debauchery but J became so weary fighting my sinful nature in my own strength that Jesus’ promise that his burden will be light was a totally foreign concept.
Jesus said to Paul that His grace is sufficient to overcome the thorns in our flesh I finally took that seriously and started relying on His power and suddenly more victory came my way by His power
This did not give me a licence to sin because sin was never a desire of my heart only a desire of my flesh but it did give me power to overcome so many battles in my life so was losing badly
Please someone clarify to me once and for all – what is a “sin” – and what are the “commandments” the Jesus requires us to follow for Him? The Old Testament cites hundreds of commandments; I’m terribly confused and searching for Truth… our Fathers Truth. Thank you.